Orange colored glasses...were not blind

#1
jakez4ut

jakez4ut

Patience... It's what's for dinner
Joined
Jul 7, 2005
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#1
Got this from collegefootballnews.com, their 5 thoughts piece...thought it was interesting to see a non biased opinion that really says alot...

"So, the good news. Sometimes before you rise up (back up), you’ve got to hit rock bottom. This program now has the time to be flushed. It’s a bit more difficult with college teams than cleaning house for a pro organization, but there needs to be a retooling in this program because it’s become more about questionable characters and ‘I’ guys than about the team. Where are the Al Wilsons who led the 1998 team wins with more heart than any Tennessee team has shown since? If you’re a distraction, you need to be gone. Find another program. That includes coaches, players, managers, film guys and anyone else wearing a football ‘hat’. There needs to be a pride in putting on the orange and white jersey, not a ‘pitstop-on-the-way-to-the-NFL-feeling’, which is the sense that I get as an interested bystander.

This is too proud a program, with passionate fans and alums that deserve better. Phil Fulmer has his hands full, but he’ll have a lot of time to make changes. If he thinks that no changes have to be made, then he should go as well. A new attitude is needed, no question. Where that attitude emanates from is the question. But, an answer is needed soon."

My sentiments exactly. :banghead:

 
#3
#3
A BIG CHERRS to that!!! CPF is known nationally ( asyou all see ) as an apologist and underacheiver with ALL he has to work with(ie most incredible facilities, most impressive stadium, huge donor base, fans that are going to be there through thick and thin, TOP recruits).......
 
#5
#5
Originally posted by jakez4ut@Nov 23, 2005 2:48 PM
Got this from collegefootballnews.com, their 5 thoughts piece...thought it was interesting to see a non biased opinion that really says alot...

"So, the good news.  Sometimes before you rise up (back up), you’ve got to hit rock bottom.  This program now has the time to be flushed.  It’s a bit more difficult with college teams than cleaning house for a pro organization, but there needs to be a retooling in this program because it’s become more about questionable characters and ‘I’ guys than about the team.  Where are the Al Wilsons who led the 1998 team wins with more heart than any Tennessee team has shown since?  If you’re a distraction, you need to be gone.  Find another program.  That includes coaches, players, managers, film guys and anyone else wearing a football ‘hat’.  There needs to be a pride in putting on the orange and white jersey, not a ‘pitstop-on-the-way-to-the-NFL-feeling’, which is the sense that I get as an interested bystander.

This is too proud a program, with passionate fans and alums that deserve better.  Phil Fulmer has his hands full, but he’ll have a lot of time to make changes.  If he thinks that no changes have to be made, then he should go as well.  A new attitude is needed, no question.  Where that attitude emanates from is the question.  But, an answer is needed soon."

My sentiments exactly. :banghead:
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I'll bring this back in to the fold regarding the CPF argument going back and forth over the past few days.

This sums it up ver nicely, and with the hire of Cut, and the obvious changes he sees that need to be made, hopefully those answers will come sooner than later...

Passionate fan base? hm, hadn't noticed.... :rock:
 
#6
#6
Nice article. As far as finding another player with the heart of Al is like saying we'll find another QB the likes of Peyton. It does give the players someone to emulate. Al and Peyton are headed for the NFL Hall of Fame .
 
#7
#7
Good article. Let's just see the players we have (more than adequate talent) get "coached up" properly.

It has been years since UT has gotten all it should from our talent base. To a huge degree "heart" is a reflection of the coaching staff's ability to play to their level.
 
#8
#8
Originally posted by utfantilidie@Nov 29, 2005 11:34 AM
Nice article. As far as finding another player with the heart of Al is like saying we'll find another QB the likes of Peyton. It does give the players someone to emulate. Al and Peyton are headed for the NFL Hall of Fame .
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yeah, those two are extreme examples on one side of the spectrum, and i don't necessarily think they have to have guys just like them, but they do need guys to follow their example.

take EA this off season...while he may never come close to what peyton was, he could take a lesson from him and organize throwing sessions with his receivers etc...develop those relationships, develop timing, find a "go to guy". do the work, that's what i'm getting at...

And on Defense, we had a couple of guys this year that were great leaders in K. Simon and Jason Allen...not the fury of A willson, but definitely two guys the rest of the team took thier lead from...we need more of that on this team.

And while agree about Peyton going to the NFL hof, i don't know that Wilson will be there...great player, solid player, but not a game changer at LB to get in to the hof...
 
#9
#9
Interesting that the problems have been on offense lately and they list Al Wilson, a linebacker, as the missing ingredient. I don't think the defense has been the problem for the Vols this season or in previous season's. Even in 1998, the defense gave up some big plays. Every defense will at times. The missing ingredient is a leader on offense like Tee Martin or Peyton Manning. That has what has been missing in previous seasons. As far as "new attitude", I think that will come with Cutcliffe. A man who demands 10 perfect plays at the end of practice. Anything less than perfection and the offense starts over at 1. Wins and losses are usually defined by the minor things.... the fundamental things and Cutcliffe pays alot of attention to detail. The 5-6 season is the blip in the history of Tennessee, not a total program collapse. The Vols will contend for a championship next season as the offense averages over 30 points per game.
 
#10
#10
Interesting how people try and latch on to cliche's and sound-bite ideas to explain away everything.

I wholeheartedly agree about CUTTY. He is just what the doctor ordered, IMO. By the way, those things you describe as what we've been lacking but that will bring us back is summed up this way: GOOD COACHING! That's really what we're talking about.

Within the realm of coaching and developing players and people brings out that missing leadership. It's hard to be an effective leader as a soldier when the General stinks. After these boys are trained properly and pushed to be all they can be, we'll see some leaders develop. They have been artificicially stunted by some of the worst coaching in all of college football. I believe that is the cold hard truth of what we were dealing with.
 
#11
#11
Originally posted by Liper@Nov 29, 2005 12:22 PM
Interesting how people try and latch on to cliche's and sound-bite ideas to explain away everything.

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i'm not sure what you mean by this, but the whole point of this post was just to show that we aren't the only ones seeing the things we see....

and as for the general stinking, well i'm not going to argue that any more, but he made the changes tha needed to be made and looks to be making proper replacements...

the guy gets his chance to fix it and right now i think he's headed in the right direction, especially if he can get Kippy Brown back...that would be a huge coup as far as i'm concerned....
 
#12
#12
I was looking at all the stops that Kippy has had, maybe he's looking to settle down and come home. Perhaps put himself in position to step up to OC or HC down the road. His resume is pretty impressive. See below from the Texan's web site:

Kippy Brown
Wide Receivers Coach
Kippy Brown, a 13-year NFL coaching veteran, enters his fourth season as wide receivers coach for the Houston Texans.

Brown is coaching one of the league’s rising young stars in wide receiver Andre Johnson, who last season became the first Texans offensive player to earn a trip to the Pro Bowl. Johnson set club records with 79 receptions for 1,129 yards. He also tied Houston’s single-season mark with six touchdown receptions. At age 24, Johnson can already boast 145 catches for 2,118 yards and 10 touchdowns.

Brown’s young and talented wideout stable also includes Jabar Gaffney, who at age 23 has 116 catches for 1,517 yards and five scores. Derick Armstrong set career marks last season with 29 receptions for 415 yards. In all, Brown’s troops helped the Texans rack up 47 pass plays of 20 yards or more.

Before arriving in Houston, Brown served as head coach of the XFL’s Memphis Maniax. Prior to his stint in Memphis, Brown spent one season with the Green Bay Packers as their running backs coach, helping perennial Pro Bowl back Ahman Green break through with his first 1,000-yard rushing campaign.

Before arriving in Green Bay, Brown spent four seasons with the Miami Dolphins under Jimmy Johnson, the final two seasons as offensive coordinator. Brown arrived in Miami as the running backs coach, helping Karim Abdul-Jabbar become the first Dolphins back to crack the 1,000-yard barrier in 18 years. The following season, Abdul-Jabbar tied for the NFL lead in rushing touchdowns with 15.

Johnson elevated Brown to offensive coordinator in 1998, where he worked with future Hall of Fame quarterback Dan Marino. The Dolphins earned a wild card berth in both of Brown’s seasons calling the plays.

Brown served one season as the running backs coach for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1995. Prior to that, he returned to the University of Tennessee, serving two seasons as the assistant head coach and wide receivers coach. The Volunteers outscored their opponents 847-383 over those two seasons en route to an 18-6 mark. Brown helped tutor future No. 1 draft pick Peyton Manning as a freshman.

Brown’s first NFL coaching stop came in New York, where he spent three seasons (1990-92) as the running backs coach for the Jets. In 1991, the Jets ranked fifth in the league in rushing and advanced to the playoffs for the first time in five seasons.

Brown’s initial stint at Tennessee was as wide receivers coach from 1983-89. He helped develop such prolific Vols receivers as Anthony Miller, Tim McGee, Alvin Harper and Carl Pickens. Prior to arriving in Knoxville, Brown coached wide receivers at Louisville, including future Dolphins standout Mark Clayton.

Brown launched his coaching career at his alma mater, Memphis State, coaching running backs in 1978 and wide receivers in 1979-80. Brown was a starter for the Tigers at quarterback. He graduated from MSU in 1977 with a degree in communications. Brown prepped at Sweetwater (TN) High School, leading his charges to consecutive state titles in 1972-73.

A native of Sweetwater, Tenn., Brown and his wife, Deon, have two children, Jerome and Jennifer. The couple lives in Houston.

BROWN’S COACHING LEDGER
2002-05: Wide Receivers, Houston Texans

2001: Head Coach, Memphis Maniax

2000: Running Backs, Green Bay Packers

1998-99: Offensive Coordinator, Miami Dolphins

1996-97: Running Backs, Miami Dolphins

1995: Running Backs, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

1993-94: Assistant Head Coach/Wide Receivers, University of Tennessee

1990-92: Running Backs, New York Jets

1983-89: Wide Receivers, University of Tennessee

1982: Wide Receivers, University of Louisville

1979-80: Wide Receivers, Memphis State

1978: Running Backs, Memphis State

 
#13
#13
I had forgotten that he was the Assistant Head Coach when he came back in 1993.
 
#14
#14
good response liper.

i think pointing out al wilson is a tribute to the players we are bringing in. people dont need to have a leader on offense but just one on the field. i hear rumors of al scaring the white out of peyton before he started to act like a true leader.

players respect and reflect the people they admire if it be another player or coach. the fact is that tennessee needs to get back to players of character rather than caliber. both are good too like peyton, al, james stewart, travis h & s. kids that bring something to the table other than 5 stars and attitude they are owed something already.

"Where are the Al Wilsons who led the 1998 team wins with more heart than any Tennessee team has shown since?"

i couldnt agree more. i think with cpf and dc we are bound for a return to tennessee's tradition.

give your all for tennessee today!! go vols!!

 
#15
#15
Originally posted by jakez4ut@Nov 29, 2005 11:36 AM
i'm not sure what you mean by this, but the whole point of this post was just to show that we aren't the only ones seeing the things we see....

and as for the general stinking, well i'm not going to argue that any more, but he made the changes tha needed to be made and looks to be making proper replacements...

the guy gets his chance to fix it and right now i think he's headed in the right direction, especially if he can get Kippy Brown back...that would be a huge coup as far as i'm concerned....
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Oh, I wasn't responding to you, jakez4ut, but generally agreeing with AllVol. My only point was that people look for cliche-type scapegoats because they want something easy and tangible to blame, i.e. no offensive leadership, off the field issues, lack of confidence, slumps, aberrations, etc. But as far as others seeing it, I'd say they've been seeing for longer than just this year.

Here's my quick and dirty on the coaches stinking:

1. That's obvious.

2. Everyone knows it.

3. CPF has said that these coaches didn't just become bad overnight. Well, I agree with him. They have stunk the entire time and we've been outclassed by every major program for the last 5-6 years. Anyone that knows me can testify to the fact that I've been saying CPW sucked all the way back into the 90s. CRS was in over his head. He was not and is not capable of being a leader of men.

My biggest beef -- and why I believe this season was the best thing for all of us -- is that all of the sudden CPF and CJC are saying how much more discipline, attention to detail, etc, CUTTY will bring to the table and how things will be so much different. Well, if it that much different and that obvious, WHY THE HELL DIDN'T YOU FIX IT 5 YEARS AGO? I'm glad they've done it now, but its FULMER'S FAULT we're in this position.
 
#16
#16
I think in many ways Fulmer is relieved to have a season like this. He is loyal to a fault, and up to this point he didn't have an obvious reason to make the changes that he may have wanted to make. This year he finally got a reason to make the changes and now he can make the changes without feeling guilty.
 
#17
#17
i agree tball. other than loyalty and heat from the boosters and powers above, there was no reason to change anything.

i have yelled at the tv for the last 5 years saying we need better fundimentals and conditioning with past defensive efforts and injuries to the team overall. the discipline problems i think will be cut down next year by far. i still would drop blades IMO.
 
#18
#18
Originally posted by Liper@Nov 29, 2005 1:28 PM
WHY THE HELL DIDN'T YOU FIX IT 5 YEARS AGO?  I'm glad they've done it now, but its FULMER'S FAULT we're in this position.
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to answer that question:
We never had a losing season, despite the ineffieciencies. It was easy to hide behind a bowl berth every year....

We were a game away from the NC game in 01, we were a game away from the SEC Championship a year ago...throw in a couple of average seasons in there as well, and while it's not the prolific 9 or 10 or 11 win seasons we saw in the 90's, it was still enough to hang your hat on...i mean we didn't SUCK at that point. We were beating UF and Bama regularly...

We all noticed things....we all saw little things that we knew if allowed to continue would bite us in the butt at some point. but as someone pointed out earlier, CPF is a loyalist, and while the boat may have been taking on a little water, the arguement could be made that we definitely weren't sinking. IN other words, if it ain't broke, too bad anyway, don't fix it. Rather put a band aid here, some duct tape there and we'll get thru it.

then a season like this comes along, and there's no where to hide. All the little things we have noticed over the past few years have come to fruition and some hard decisions had to be made by CPF, whether he liked it or not.

But he did do it, and for that, i do agree that if there is on silver lining about this season, is it finally did put all those things on the forefront of everyone's table, including CPF. It could no longer be fixed with patchwork.

And all that still gets you back to square one...could this season have been prevented by doing proper preventative maintenance 3 years ago? dont' know, but at least it's happening....and hopefully it will bring dividends in the not so distant future.
 
#19
#19
Seems that most of us agree that CPF was too loyal to some average-at-best coaches.

I agree with you, jakez4ut, on why CPF did not make changes. I'm just saying that doesn't make it OK.

The thing that BAFFLES me is how he can comment so easily on the changes and improvements that are coming with CUTTY, and at the same time not see or comment on how HE LET the situation deteriorate into something that needed such drastic changes. It's as if he wants it both ways.

This is a de facto admission that the staff was a problem for several years before he even batted an eye at the problems. If he let's it get that far away from him, what does that say about his true coachin and leadership ability (hence my comment about him needing a great staff more than most other coaches)?
 
#20
#20
no, i'm with you, it doesn't make it right, but it is what it is, to quote John Fox.

CPF kind of has to look at this like he's the President...you can't admit you were wrong, even ifyou were, and everyone knows it including yourself....at his position, he gets paid to be right about everything....recruiting, talent evaluation, player development, game planning, coaching hires, coaching fires, play calling, EVERYTHING...

If he starts admitting he's wrong, then the door opens for "what else were you wrong about?" then confidence in the leader gets diminished, like it or not, his credibility is shot and he becomes 2nd guessed about everything...

at least this way, he is the one still making the decisions...still in charge....

I know what your going to say in response to that...he gets 2nd guessed anyway, who thinks he's credible now, who has confidence in him now...based on the decisions he's made over the past 5 years...and all valid...but do you really want a coach, a head coach of a program like this to come out and say every week, "well, i screwed up here, and screwed up there, should've done this or that" how long do you think that would be tolerated from a HC at a supposed top tier D1 program?

i don't know, the bottom line is that at least it's gettin done, the debate over when or why it should be done is irrelevant at this point....
 
#21
#21
Im tired of hearing CPF has to go! He is not going anywhere next season. We have Cut now and need replacements for stephens and Washington. If we blow next year aswell then we can restart the Fire Phil site again. Im ready to read about all the 5 star recruits we have coming. oh wait we don't have any yet. well 1.
 
#22
#22
Good points, jakez. Whatever the case, I'm just it got done. It's kind of like waiting for Majors to get fired; I never thought it would happen, and when it did, I was so happy I couldn't care less.

With regard to truth telling, I prefer guys like Saban, Spurrier, JJ, Parcells, and Walsh. When they suck, they say they suck. They also recognize error and know what to do to get things fixed.

Did it not seem like CPF had no idea what was wrong? Aside from a hired gun gun coming in to fix things -- CUTTY buddy -- he still seems as if this is beyond his ability to address. Strange, very strange.
 
#23
#23
Originally posted by Liper@Nov 29, 2005 2:52 PM
Good points, jakez.  Whatever the case, I'm just it got done.  It's kind of like waiting for Majors to get fired; I never thought it would happen, and when it did, I was so happy I couldn't care less.

With regard to truth telling, I prefer guys like Saban, Spurrier, JJ, Parcells, and Walsh.  When they suck, they say they suck.  They also recognize error and know what to do to get things fixed.

Did it not seem like CPF had no idea what was wrong?  Aside from a hired gun gun coming in to fix things -- CUTTY buddy -- he still seems as if this is beyond his ability to address.  Strange, very strange.
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Oh yeah, totally...but i posted in here some time ago that that was Fulmer's biggest issue...he's totally reactionary...he isn't going to fix anything until it blows up in his face...he doesn't have a proactive bone in his body...

And for the record, i like those types as well....but, CPF ain't going no where anytime soon, and what he does do well is administrate...so long has he has, and right now it appears he does, good people around him, he'll be fine.

I don't think anyone on this board would say that CPF is a great x's and o's coach, or the best motivator, or the best game planner...the reason he's been successfull is he has always had good people (both coaches and players) around him at all times.



 
#24
#24
Originally posted by jakez4ut@Nov 29, 2005 2:09 PM
Oh yeah, totally...but i posted in here some time ago that that was Fulmer's biggest issue...he's totally reactionary...he isn't going to fix anything until it blows up in his face...he doesn't have a proactive bone in his body...

And for the record, i like those types as well....but, CPF ain't going no where anytime soon, and what he does do well is administrate...so long has he has, and right now it appears he does, good people around him, he'll be fine.

I don't think anyone on this board would say that CPF is a great x's and o's coach, or the best motivator, or the best game planner...the reason he's been successfull is he has always had good people (both coaches and players) around him at all times.
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Excellent points. I think I might just agree with everything in your post.

It makes even more sense under the light of our recent season. When he isn't being a good administrator, hiring the right people, addressing things head on, he will REALLY struggle. When those things are not around him, all of his personal weaknesses are brutally exposed. With CRS, CPW, CJRS, and CGA around him, he was essentially turning to some incompetent people so far as it relates to down and dirty coaching. The infrastructure was lost; enter Cutty Wutty.

Nobody's perfect, and football coaching aint a thing of being perfect. CPF is pretty good when the totality of the program is looked at. He's done a good thing here this week.
 
#25
#25
Originally posted by Liper@Nov 29, 2005 3:23 PM
Excellent points.  I think I might just agree with everything in your post.

It makes even more sense under the light of our recent season.  When he isn't being a good administrator, hiring the right people, addressing things head on, he will REALLY struggle.  When those things are not around him, all of his personal weaknesses are brutally exposed.  With CRS, CPW, CJRS, and CGA around him, he was essentially turning to some incompetent people so far as it relates to down and dirty coaching.  The infrastructure was lost; enter Cutty Wutty.

Nobody's perfect, and football coaching aint a thing of being perfect.  CPF is pretty good when the totality of the program is looked at.  He's done a good thing here this week.
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10-4 on that, and that's the bottom line...it would be a bigger crime to not do anything and try to muttle thru under current situation....

and i also agree that the program as whole is, as it stands today, is still in good shape....the continuation of that is the hard part, and it will be hard next year, no doubt...

but i'll still go back to some of these traditional powers that have been thru cycles of good and bad years....FSU lookst be going in a down cycle, esp. if they get beat Saturday night....Nebraska is still in that down cycle, Bama is just coming out of one, but could be headed back down with no Croyle??? ND same thing....yeah, they had a good year, but who did they really beat when it's all said and done??? OK is one game better than us right now, unranked, PSU is coming out of a major down cycle, minus the past 3 years, what had USC accomplished lately? UCLA? Kansas St...weren't they in conf championship games and NC contention with us just less than a decade ago? now where are they? will they ever be 'back'?

it's just our turn....it was bound to happen at some point....let's just hope it has a short shelf life....
 
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