Oregon Parents Found Guilty in Faith Healing Death of Newborn Son

#1

VOLatile

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#1
Jurors in faith-healing trial say evidence overpowered a weak defense | OregonLive.com

OREGON CITY – Dale and Shannon Hickman tightly embraced and trembled in tears Thursday after a Clackamas County jury found them guilty of second-degree manslaughter in the faith-healing death of their newborn son.

Jurors deliberated less than four hours and their verdict sent another resounding warning to the members of the Hickmans' church, the Followers of Christ, that failing to provide medical care to critically ill children is unacceptable and will be punished.

The Followers have a long history of children dying from treatable medical conditions, and Oregon has a history of granting legal protections to faith healers.

Thoughts?

Their use of religious persecution as a defense is utterly laughable.
 
#2
#2
Thank God this only represents the fringe elements in the Christian community. If it were the mainstream, there is a risk of critics painting All Christians with abroad brush and accusing ALL Christians of believing in this,

Thank you VOLatile for not attempting to stereotype when you created this thread.
 
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#3
#3
Thank God this only represents the fringe elements in the Christian community. If it were the mainstream, there is a risk of critics painting All Christians with abroad brush and accusing ALL Christians of believing in this,

Thank you VOLatile for not attempting to stereotype when you created this thread.

True ... Very fringe element.
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#4
#4
Thank God this only represents the fringe elements in the Christian community. If it were the mainstream, there is a risk of critics painting All Christians with abroad brush and accusing ALL Christians of believing in this,

Thank you VOLatile for not attempting to stereotype when you created this thread.

Can't tell if sarcasm or not. I hope you don't think I was trying to paint with a broad brush on this one. I'm specifically asking how people feel about this. I could go on all day about how people thank god rather than the doctors but don't intend on doing so this time. This specific, hopefully isolated, incident makes me incredibly sick.
 
#5
#5
There is nothing wrong with praying for the sick, but God granted us the sense to see a doctor when needed. One of the men Jesus chose to be one of his disciples was a physician, Luke.
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#6
#6
Can't tell if sarcasm or not. I hope you don't think I was trying to paint with a broad brush on this one. I'm specifically asking how people feel about this. I could go on all day about how people thank god rather than the doctors but don't intend on doing so this time. This specific, hopefully isolated, incident makes me incredibly sick.

I was paying you a compliment for not painting all Christians as zealous as these people seem to be. I was being sincere...
 
#7
#7
I was paying you a compliment for not painting all Christians as zealous as these people seem to be. I was being sincere...

I'm sorry. I'm several strong margaritas deep tonight and assumed sarcasm knowing my history of being anti-religion. Thank you, kind sir. I appreciate it.
 
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#8
Asking a serious question here because I am curious....

...if you pray for somebody that is sick, take them to a doctor, and the still die anyway, is it just God's will at play? And if they live, do you credit God or the doctor for saving them?

Seems to me, God, if he exists, is going to do what he wants anyway, why the eff bother praying in the first place? Rely on modern medicine to do its job, and if it can't, so be it.
 
#9
#9
Asking a serious question here because I am curious....

...if you pray for somebody that is sick, take them to a doctor, and the still die anyway, is it just God's will at play? And if they live, do you credit God or the doctor for saving them?

Seems to me, God, if he exists, is going to do what he wants anyway, why the eff bother praying in the first place? Rely on modern medicine to do its job, and if it can't, so be it.

I have no idea why, but modern medicine stuck with me......lol
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#10
#10
Asking a serious question here because I am curious....

...if you pray for somebody that is sick, take them to a doctor, and the still die anyway, is it just God's will at play? And if they live, do you credit God or the doctor for saving them?

Seems to me, God, if he exists, is going to do what he wants anyway, why the eff bother praying in the first place? Rely on modern medicine to do its job, and if it can't, so be it.

Serious answer. God does not want people to become christians to get everything they want. If God answered yes to every prayer a christian prayed, then non-christians could see this and then make the decision to become a christian in order to get some of the swag. God wants you to become a christian because you love him, determine that living according to his will is the best way to live, and that you are committed to doing the right things and making the world a better place.

God normally lets the laws of nature take their course. The flow of a disease is neither part of His desire, nor is it against His desire. His will is not involved. We are the ones who see physical death as an evil thing, not Him. He knows that death is inevitable and that the timing of it is not as important as we seem to think. When we pray, we are asking God to allow or prevent an event contrary to the laws of nature. He will do this on occasion, if He thinks that the benefit of it is worth it. We can't see things from His perspective, so we are unable to determine when the good outweighs the bad like He can.

God has given us free will and allows us to use it. With good consequences and bad ones. He has also given us the intelligence to solve problems and learn to manipulate nature. Medicine is one of those ways. God expects us to take care of our day to day needs. He gives us the raw materials and the ability to use them. I don't understand the people who eschew medicine. The bible has many examples of people (like Luke) and medicines. Paul told Timothy to take medicine for his stomach. (in that case the medicine available was wine, but that is still a valid medicine.)
 
#11
#11
Serious answer. God does not want people to become christians to get everything they want. If God answered yes to every prayer a christian prayed, then non-christians could see this and then make the decision to become a christian in order to get some of the swag. God wants you to become a christian because you love him, determine that living according to his will is the best way to live, and that you are committed to doing the right things and making the world a better place.

God normally lets the laws of nature take their course. The flow of a disease is neither part of His desire, nor is it against His desire. His will is not involved. We are the ones who see physical death as an evil thing, not Him. He knows that death is inevitable and that the timing of it is not as important as we seem to think. When we pray, we are asking God to allow or prevent an event contrary to the laws of nature. He will do this on occasion, if He thinks that the benefit of it is worth it. We can't see things from His perspective, so we are unable to determine when the good outweighs the bad like He can.

God has given us free will and allows us to use it. With good consequences and bad ones. He has also given us the intelligence to solve problems and learn to manipulate nature. Medicine is one of those ways. God expects us to take care of our day to day needs. He gives us the raw materials and the ability to use them. I don't understand the people who eschew medicine. The bible has many examples of people (like Luke) and medicines. Paul told Timothy to take medicine for his stomach. (in that case the medicine available was wine, but that is still a valid medicine.)

Nice response. :hi:
 
#12
#12
still not sure how we have free will if our fate is predetermined
 
#14
#14
Serious answer. God does not want people to become christians to get everything they want. If God answered yes to every prayer a christian prayed, then non-christians could see this and then make the decision to become a christian in order to get some of the swag. God wants you to become a christian because you love him, determine that living according to his will is the best way to live, and that you are committed to doing the right things and making the world a better place.

God normally lets the laws of nature take their course. The flow of a disease is neither part of His desire, nor is it against His desire. His will is not involved. We are the ones who see physical death as an evil thing, not Him. He knows that death is inevitable and that the timing of it is not as important as we seem to think. When we pray, we are asking God to allow or prevent an event contrary to the laws of nature. He will do this on occasion, if He thinks that the benefit of it is worth it. We can't see things from His perspective, so we are unable to determine when the good outweighs the bad like He can.

God has given us free will and allows us to use it. With good consequences and bad ones. He has also given us the intelligence to solve problems and learn to manipulate nature. Medicine is one of those ways. God expects us to take care of our day to day needs. He gives us the raw materials and the ability to use them. I don't understand the people who eschew medicine. The bible has many examples of people (like Luke) and medicines. Paul told Timothy to take medicine for his stomach. (in that case the medicine available was wine, but that is still a valid medicine.)

Good post.
 

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