Pakistan orders troops to open fire if US raids

#1
OrangeEmpire

OrangeEmpire

The White Debonair
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#1
The Associated Press: Pakistan orders troops to open fire if US raids

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistan's military has ordered its forces to open fire if U.S. troops launch another air or ground raid across the Afghan border, an army spokesman said Tuesday.
The orders, which come in response to a highly unusual Sept. 3 ground attack by U.S. commandos, are certain to heighten tensions between Washington and a key ally against terrorism. Although the ground attack was rare, there have been repeated reports of U.S. drone aircraft striking militant targets, most recently on Sept. 12.
Pakistani officials warn that stepped-up cross-border raids will accomplish little while fueling violent religious extremism in nuclear-armed Pakistan. Some complain that the country is a scapegoat for the failure to stabilize Afghanistan.
Pakistan's civilian leaders, who have taken a hard line against Islamic militants since forcing Pervez Musharraf to resign as president last month, have insisted that Pakistan must resolve the dispute with Washington through diplomatic channels.
However, army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas told The Associated Press that after U.S. helicopters ferried troops into a militant stronghold in the South Waziristan tribal region, the military told field commanders to prevent any similar raids.
"The orders are clear," Abbas said in an interview. "In case it happens again in this form, that there is a very significant detection, which is very definite, no ambiguity, across the border, on ground or in the air: open fire."
U.S. military commanders accuse Islamabad of doing too little to prevent the Taliban and other militant groups from recruiting, training and resupplying in Pakistan's wild tribal belt.
Pakistan acknowledges the presence of al-Qaida fugitives and its difficulties in preventing militants from seeping through the mountainous border into Afghanistan.
However, it insists it is doing what it can and paying a heavy price, pointing to its deployment of more then 100,000 troops in its increasingly restive northwest and a wave of suicide bombings across the country.
After talks Tuesday with British officials in London, Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari said he did not "think there will be any more" cross-border raids by the U.S. He declined to comment on the order to use lethal force against American troops.
Instead, he and British Prime Minister Gordon Brown issued a joint statement saying Afghanistan and Pakistan should lead the efforts to battle border militancy. The joint statement left out any mention of the United States.
American officials have confirmed their forces carried out the Sept. 3 raid near the town of Angoor Ada but given few details of what happened.
Abbas said that Pakistan's military had asked for an explanation but received only a "half-page" of "very vague" information that failed to identify the intended target.
Pakistani officials have said the raid killed about 15 people, and Abbas said they all appeared to be civilians.
"These were truck drivers, local traders and their families," he said.
How to reverse a surge in Taliban violence in Afghanistan has become a major issue in the U.S. presidential campaign and refocused attention on the porous border with Pakistan.
Pakistan's military has won American praise for a six-week offensive against militants in the Bajur tribal region that officials here say has killed 700 suspected insurgents and about 40 troops. Troops backed by warplanes killed eight more alleged militants Tuesday, officials said.
In the same timeframe, there has been a surge in missile strikes apparently carried out by unmanned U.S. drones. Such attacks killed at least two senior al-Qaida commanders earlier this year.
Abbas did not say when exactly the orders for Pakistani troops to open fire to prevent cross-border raids by U.S. troops were issued. He wouldn't discuss whether Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, who replaced Musharraf as army chief last year, personally took the decision or if the orders had been discussed with American officials.
The spokesman also played down suggestions that the instructions had been put into practice before dawn on Monday, when U.S. helicopters reportedly landed near Angoor Ada only to fly away after troops fired warning shots.
Abbas insisted no foreign troops had crossed the border and that "trigger-happy tribesmen" had fired the shots. Pakistani troops based nearby fired flares to see what was going on, he said.
The U.S. military in Afghanistan said none of its troops were involved.
In a rare public statement last week, Kayani said Pakistan's sovereignty would be defended "at all cost." Abbas said Pakistani officials had to consider public opinion, which is skeptical of American goals in the region and harbors sympathy for rebels fighting in the name of Islam.
"Please look at the public reaction to this kind of adventure or incursion," Abbas said. "The army is also an extension of the public and you can only satisfy the public when you match your words with your actions."
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Thoughts?
 
#2
#2
I think they're telling their troops to commit suicide.

Those guys on the business end of that order will rethink after a couple of tries.
 
#4
#4
The US has every right to pursue enemy combatants over the border into Pakistan. Pakistan has every right to fire on US troops if they invade Pakistani sovereignty. I have no doubt in the tactical outcomes of such engagements. Unfortunately, I also have no doubt in the strategic outcomes of such engagements.

The steps that the US Government needs to take:
1) Do not invade Pakistani sovereignty
2) Stop trading with Pakistan
3) Stop supporting Musharraf
4) Become much closer allies with India

Pakistan will most definitely get what it asks for in such a situation.
 
#6
#6
They're going to look like fools when their soldiers start shooting at us and we level all their bases. All their bases will belong to us.
 
#7
#7
I think we will look like fools when the international community is outraged at us for killing their soldiers on their soil.
 
#9
#9
therealUT said:
The US has every right to pursue enemy combatants over the border into Pakistan. Pakistan has every right to fire on US troops if they invade Pakistani sovereignty. I have no doubt in the tactical outcomes of such engagements. Unfortunately, I also have no doubt in the strategic outcomes of such engagements.

The steps that the US Government needs to take:
1) Do not invade Pakistani sovereignty
2) Stop trading with Pakistan
3) Stop supporting Musharraf
4) Become much closer allies with India

Pakistan will most definitely get what it asks for in such a situation.
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Wont be hard to do Musharraf is out, its Zardari now.
 
#10
#10
A few more 1,300 lb explosives detonated upon civilian hotels and Pakistan problem escorts us across their borders to hunt down AQ operatives.

Does AQ have any real strategy other than destroy and kill??? A week after Pakistan basically tells the US military to stay out (effectively offering safe haven to AQ), AQ commits mass murder against innocent civilians in Pakistan...brilliant
 
#11
#11
That's a load of crap. Osama Bin Laden might just very well be in Pakistan, and now we can't cross.

To hell with them. We should take about 5 Sherman tanks and bust through the border, and smoke that poon Bin Laden out.
 
#12
#12
nickknx865 said:
That's a load of crap. Osama Bin Laden might just very well be in Pakistan, and now we can't cross.

To hell with them. We should take about 5 Sherman tanks and bust through the border, and smoke that poon Bin Laden out.
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Shermans? Should we load them up with WWII and Korean War Vets, also?

How about the US actually tries to respect the sovereignty of Pakistan???
 
#13
#13
therealUT said:
Shermans? Should we load them up with WWII and Korean War Vets, also?

How about the US actually tries to respect the sovereignty of Pakistan???
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Ok, Bradley tanks.

How about one of our biggest allies is telling thier troops to shoot at American troops. Something must be done about this.
 
#15
#15
Well, here is my thing. Pakistan, who is a US ally in the War on Terror(which should be almost exclusively in Afganistan), has told thier troops to shoot at our troops. Now, I'm sure we could work out something with them, like agreeing to only go in the mountainous part of the country to search in the caves and caverns.

I think that would be more reasonable, and a solution that could benifit both countries. We respect Pakistan's soverignty, and we are still able to carry out our buisness.
 
#16
#16
The Pakistani military has issued an ultimatum to the US Military. They are completely within their rights, as a nation, to do so. Yes, it would be more reasonable for the Pakistani military to work with our military and get rid of the Taliban and AQ operatives in the region. However, simply acting in an irrational manner is no justification for us to invade another nation.
 
#18
#18
therealUT said:
The Pakistani military has issued an ultimatum to the US Military. They are completely within their rights, as a nation, to do so. Yes, it would be more reasonable for the Pakistani military to work with our military and get rid of the Taliban and AQ operatives in the region. However, simply acting in an irrational manner is no justification for us to invade another nation.
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Here's a question -

Do you expect Bush to sit down with Pakistan and hammer out a plan?
 
#20
#20
nickknx865 said:
Here's a question -

Do you expect Bush to sit down with Pakistan and hammer out a plan?
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No. I expect Condoleeza Rice and the next Secretary of State to sit down with the Pakistani Sec. of State and explain the ramifications of not allowing US Troops to pursue enemy combatants across the border.

Obviously, it is in Pakistan's best interest to flush radical terrorists out of their country. However, Pakistan also wants to show the world, and India, that they are a strong nation. When armed US Troops invade Pakistan, whether in pursuit of enemy combatants or not, without prior consent from the Pakistani Government, it undermines them and their influence in the region.
 
#22
#22
therealUT said:
No. I expect Condoleeza Rice and the next Secretary of State to sit down with the Pakistani Sec. of State and explain the ramifications of not allowing US Troops to pursue enemy combatants across the border.

Obviously, it is in Pakistan's best interest to flush radical terrorists out of their country. However, Pakistan also wants to show the world, and India, that they are a strong nation. When armed US Troops invade Pakistan, whether in pursuit of enemy combatants or not, without prior consent from the Pakistani Government, it undermines them and their influence in the region.
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Your M4 is made in Pakistan:)
 
#23
#23
therealUT said:
No. I expect Condoleeza Rice and the next Secretary of State to sit down with the Pakistani Sec. of State and explain the ramifications of not allowing US Troops to pursue enemy combatants across the border.

Obviously, it is in Pakistan's best interest to flush radical terrorists out of their country. However, Pakistan also wants to show the world, and India, that they are a strong nation. When armed US Troops invade Pakistan, whether in pursuit of enemy combatants or not, without prior consent from the Pakistani Government, it undermines them and their influence in the region.
Click to expand...

Interesting thought Trut, I agree. I really hope we can work something out with these guys. The last thing we need right now is another war.
 
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