Pearl's 1-2-1-1 Press.

#1
allvol21

allvol21

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#1
I've studied quiet a bit on CBP's 1-2-1-1. I feel like it is a great press with the right personnel. You need hard nosed guards that are able to anticipate and get in passing lanes, you also need mobile big men. Especially your 4 man, he is crucial in this press.

I feel like we had that in pearls first few years of overachievers. I just believe that this year there are a few weak spots that we will be vulnerable in trying to press. That is when Brian Williams, Scotty Hopson, and J.P prince are on the floor.

Share some thoughts...
 
#2
#2
allvol21 said:
I've studied quiet a bit on CBP's 1-2-1-1. I feel like it is a great press with the right personnel. You need hard nosed guards that are able to anticipate and get in passing lanes, you also need mobile big men. Especially your 4 man, he is crucial in this press.

I feel like we had that in pearls first few years of overachievers. I just believe that this year there are a few weak spots that we will be vulnerable in trying to press. That is when Brian Williams, Scotty Hopson, and J.P prince are on the floor.

Share some thoughts...
Click to expand...

It's more of a run and jump press rather than a true zone...it was successful in the past in increasing the game tempo....he might not have the horses for that...not many teams in college press successfully because of the abilities of opponents to throw the long ball and break a trap with the dribble....however some teams...like Pearl's use it for a tempo setter
 
#3
#3
matrosscbc said:
It's more of a run and jump press rather than a true zone...it was successful in the past in increasing the game tempo....he might not have the horses for that...not many teams in college press successfully because of the abilities of opponents to throw the long ball and break a trap with the dribble....however some teams...like Pearl's use it for a tempo setter
Click to expand...

I think times that we have seen it as of late it has been more of a run a and jump. Set up to slow the transition and control tempo as you were talking. But this press that we saw at the beginning of his tenure is a true zone that prides itself on forcing the inbounds to the corner and the initial trap. If those two things don't happen than it breaks down immeadiatle which is what scares me with this team.
 
#4
#4
Excuse the ignorance...But have we seen this particular kind of press? I know you just said it is not the same zone press as they were running earlier, so is this man to man with traps??
 
#5
#5
VOLnVEGAS said:
Excuse the ignorance...But have we seen this particular kind of press? I know you just said it is not the same zone press as they were running earlier, so is this man to man with traps??
Click to expand...

Yea we saw the 1-2-1-1 every game his first couple of years. It's a zone press. We have also seen the run and jump the other poster was talking about. It's more of a man to man with reads when they see an opportunity to "jump" or trap the ball handler, but pearl used it to slow other teams down more than anything it's a less aggressive and less vulnerable type of full court pressure.
 
#6
#6
You said that the 4 man in this press is very important..Is it because he has to be so athletic and quick?? In our projected lineup who in this system would be the 4 and 5??
 
#7
#7
VOLnVEGAS said:
You said that the 4 man in this press is very important..Is it because he has to be so athletic and quick?? In our projected lineup who in this system would be the 4 and 5??
Click to expand...

1) the 4 man is important because is shadowing the inbounder to take away view down the floor to prevent the deep pass..so the bigger and more active he is the more affective he is.
2) He also is farthest away from the basket we are defending. So once the press breaks down he has to be able to recover back down the floor...especially if we are transitioning back to a man to man.

Chism will play some 4 and 5. Tyler will play some 4. We have also seen jp play some 4. Obviously Brian Williams plays the 5 and will probably see kenny hall with some minutes at the 4.
 
#8
#8
Its great if you can transition back to whatever D your going to run afterwards. It also takes a lot out of your guys. Good conditioning will be key,.... as always.
 
#9
#9
The sounds great and you have obviously done alot of research and thinking on this subject, so do you think this is going to be good for us this year? Can it be as affective as in the first couple of Pearl's seasons??
 
#10
#10
I believe it can...but alot of it has to do with the mindset of players. I believe pearl did a great job motivating his players in the first few years...mainly using the " underdog " mentality on the players. With a little success and far more expectations we will see if he can get players to buy in to this scheme and completely sell out possesion after possesion when fatigue sets in.
 
#11
#11
as far as the OP saying they were overachievers, I guess you could say that. that being said i rather have guys who wrked hard, and were smart over guys that can jump out of the gym. here's something i learned when i was in 8th grade playing AAU, right before we played this team from the hood my coach told me to just pumpfake everytime. it worked. it's ridiculous, 99% of the kids who play this streetball will go for pump fakes. worked every time. i like the press, it's good if you can get guys to know their roles
 
#12
#12
Vol Mania 21 said:
as far as the OP saying they were overachievers, I guess you could say that. that being said i rather have guys who wrked hard, and were smart over guys that can jump out of the gym. here's something i learned when i was in 8th grade playing AAU, right before we played this team from the hood my coach told me to just pumpfake everytime. it worked. it's ridiculous, 99% of the kids who play this streetball will go for pump fakes. worked every time. i like the press, it's good if you can get guys to know their roles
Click to expand...

I don't really understand what how you are trying to relate this to the topic at hand...with the pumpfakes example...I'm not trying to be a smart a...please elaborate
 
#13
#13
I know i rambled on. Just saying the first few teams that Pearl had were guys who were less talented, but were smart players. I'd rather have smart players, then ridiculous talent
 
#17
#17
VOLnVEGAS said:
You said that the 4 man in this press is very important..Is it because he has to be so athletic and quick?? In our projected lineup who in this system would be the 4 and 5??
Click to expand...

The key to the diamond press is the 1-2-1-1 guy, not necessarily the power forward. In a typical situation, the ball comes in to the corner, where the point and one of the wings trap him. The other wing sinks to cut off the middle of the floor. What is being called the '4' in this thread has to cover the ball-side sideline.

It is a lot of ground to cover, so yes, a long, athletic, fast guy is necessary. If he can't do it, you are going to see a lot of balls coming down the floor quickly and a lot of 3-1 fast breaks. Long, quick wings are important as well, but the sheer amount of space the 4 has to cover makes him the cornerstone.
 
#18
#18
allvol21 said:
1) the 4 man is important because is shadowing the inbounder to take away view down the floor to prevent the deep pass..so the bigger and more active he is the more affective he is.
2) He also is farthest away from the basket we are defending. So once the press breaks down he has to be able to recover back down the floor...especially if we are transitioning back to a man to man.

Chism will play some 4 and 5. Tyler will play some 4. We have also seen jp play some 4. Obviously Brian Williams plays the 5 and will probably see kenny hall with some minutes at the 4.
Click to expand...

The 4 man never guards the inbound pass. It has always been the 5 man since Pearl has been there. Wingate his first year and Chism and Crews since then. Tyler Smith is the 4 and has never been on the ball in the press.
 
#19
#19
allvol21 said:
I think times that we have seen it as of late it has been more of a run a and jump. Set up to slow the transition and control tempo as you were talking. But this press that we saw at the beginning of his tenure is a true zone that prides itself on forcing the inbounds to the corner and the initial trap. If those two things don't happen than it breaks down immeadiatle which is what scares me with this team.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything but the press has always been basically a run and jump because that is what a diamond press is. The difference last year was that we did NOT use the run and jump method of trying to trap and instead just denied the inbound pass before recovering to man to man in the half court. What you are calling a true zone that forces the inbounds to the corner and traps with the 5 man guarding the inbounds pass and the opposite wing dropping to deny the inbound passer is a run and jump. It is 1-2-1-1 alignment with basically your wings denying the guards forcing the ball to be thrown to the trap spot and then running and jumping your 5 man to trap the first pass and your opposite wing to take away the pass back. Basic run and jump principles.
 
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#20
#20
cotton said:
The key to the diamond press is the 1-2-1-1 guy, not necessarily the power forward. In a typical situation, the ball comes in to the corner, where the point and one of the wings trap him. The other wing sinks to cut off the middle of the floor. What is being called the '4' in this thread has to cover the ball-side sideline.

It is a lot of ground to cover, so yes, a long, athletic, fast guy is necessary. If he can't do it, you are going to see a lot of balls coming down the floor quickly and a lot of 3-1 fast breaks. Long, quick wings are important as well, but the sheer amount of space the 4 has to cover makes him the cornerstone.
Click to expand...

He is saying that the 4 man is on the ball which is incorrect. But you are right; the rover position that you are referring to is very important in a diamond press.
 
#21
#21
kiffinator13 said:
He is saying that the 4 man is on the ball which is incorrect. But you are right; the rover position that you are referring to is very important in a diamond press.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think I misunderstood what he meant by the '4' which is why I tried to distinguish it from the PF position.

'Rover' is a better term, but it is the guy in the middle of the floor along with the wings who make the press.
 
#22
#22
kiffinator13 said:
I disagree. I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything but the press has always been basically a run and jump because that is what a diamond press is. The difference last year was that we did NOT use the run and jump method of trying to trap and instead just denied the inbound pass before recovering to man to man in the half court. What you are calling a true zone that forces the inbounds to the corner and traps with the 5 man guarding the inbounds pass and the opposite wing dropping to deny the inbound passer is a run and jump. It is 1-2-1-1 alignment with basically your wings denying the guards forcing the ball to be thrown to the trap spot and then running and jumping your 5 man to trap the first pass and your opposite wing to take away the pass back. Basic run and jump principles.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree as well. The principle of a run and jump are mainly from a man to man. It is the type of press where you read the ball handler. There are 3 times when you trap out of a run and jump.

1) when the ball handler comes with a speed dribble, or is " out of control"

2) When the ball handler is blind to you. For example: he is being forced to the sidline away from you he makes a reverse pivot and then trap immeadiately.

3) when you feel like the ball handler is weak or on his weak side of the floor.

A run and jump is a read press and the 1-2-1-1 is designed to play out a certain way every time. Not to mention it is a zone no matter how you put it.
 
#23
#23
kiffinator13 said:
The 4 man never guards the inbound pass. It has always been the 5 man since Pearl has been there. Wingate his first year and Chism and Crews since then. Tyler Smith is the 4 and has never been on the ball in the press.
Click to expand...

The reason you have never seen tyler on the ball is we have not ran this press with him at the 4. When crews was here chism did play the 4 alot so thats why you sall that. Not saying it has to be but the 4 man is what he wants in his press on the inbounder. But if you don't believe me I found you a link. See for yourself....

X’s & O’s of Basketball: Bruce Pearl's 1-2-1-1 Full-court Press
 
#24
#24
Bruce Pearl hasn't really recruited the quickness that he needs to run this press lately. He's recruited big, strong, athletic guys, but this press doesn't really work with the personnel. We saw it get beat a lot last year because the people running it weren't quick enough. It's not just the 4 man, it's everyone.
 
#25
#25
allvol-
with the current team we have got, how many times a game do you see us doing this 1-2-1-1 press?? Is it mostly after a made free throw?
 
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