Peyton Manning

#26
#26
(hatvol96 @ Jan 16 said:
Just pointing out that their playoff woes have very little to do with Vanderjagct.
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Here's a different perspective on him....

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#28
#28
I'm a steeler fan, so i'm not unhappy about yesterday, but i do hate it for Peyton...i really wish they had been playing someone other than the Steelers.

but as to why they lost....too much time off. routes were run wrong, passes were too low, too high, run and pass blocking looked way out of sync. they lost all the momentum they had going in to that game against SD. Plus, when you play perfect all season long, like the Colts did, how do you react when you start making mistakes? And i mean mistakes that cost you points? feild position? i think we found out...and so did the Patriots on Saturday night...did you see their sideline, pushing and shoving....all frustrated....same thing happened to the STeelers last year....15-1, played great for a long time, and then lucked a few games at the end and in the Division game against the Jets...same happened to the Colts....

it's been 5 weeks since they played a meaningful game. and i dont' care how much you practice, you can't simulate game speed, especially against the Steelers' D.

And, yeah, the talk will run on and on about how Peyton is a terrible big game qb blah, blah, blah....but it takes a whole team to lose, and win.

blame could go all around...how many dropped passes? how many times was an O linemen chasing someone instead of standing in front of them? how many times did the Colts D allow the Steelers to convert a 3rd or 4th down? and how many times did vanderwhatever miss a game tying FG?

Oh well. Go Steelers.
 
#29
#29
QB performances in playoffs:

Roethlisberger (2 games): Rating 124.7
Delhomme (2 games): Rating 112.6
Hasselback (1 game): Rating 100.6
Brady (2 games): Rating 92.2 --- in loss: Rating 74
Manning (1 game): Rating 91
Plummer (1 game): Rating78.5
Brunnel (1 game): Rating 69.6
Leftwich (1 game): Rating 61.1
Kitna (1 game): Rating 60.1
Grossman (1 game): Rating 54

PM has the highest rating of any QB that lost a playoff game. Next closest is Brady. He performed much better than Plummer.

If you read stories about these teams losses, nowhere do you see the amount of blame being placed on QB's that performed worse than PM did. Unfortunately, it is part of PM's legacy.
 
#30
#30
(jakez4ut @ Jan 16 said:
I'm a steeler fan, so i'm not unhappy about yesterday, but i do hate it for Peyton...i really wish they had been playing someone other than the Steelers.

Oh well. Go Steelers.
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I'm right there with you. I've been a Steelers fan since the early 70's. I've been a Colts fan since PM joined them. I have mixed feelings about the game but ultimately pull for the Steelers. I just think PM gets a raw deal on the "can't win the big one" label.
 
#31
#31
(volinbham @ Jan 16 said:
QB performances in playoffs:

Roethlisberger (2 games): Rating 124.7
Delhomme (2 games): Rating 112.6
Hasselback (1 game): Rating 100.6
Brady (2 games): Rating 92.2 --- in loss: Rating 74
Manning (1 game): Rating 91
Plummer (1 game): Rating78.5
Brunnel (1 game): Rating 69.6
Leftwich (1 game): Rating 61.1
Kitna (1 game): Rating 60.1
Grossman (1 game): Rating 54

PM has the highest rating of any QB that lost a playoff game. Next closest is Brady. He performed much better than Plummer.

If you read stories about these teams losses, nowhere do you see the amount of blame being placed on QB's that performed worse than PM did. Unfortunately, it is part of PM's legacy.
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Brady has three rings. I think it's obvious why he's somewhat immune from criticism.
 
#32
#32
(hatvol96 @ Jan 16 said:
Brady has three rings. I think it's obvious why he's somewhat immune from criticism.
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I think Brady is an outstanding QB but he didn't have a good game against Denver. Shouldn't the loss be blamed on him as every Colts playoff loss is blamed on PM?

 
#33
#33
(volinbham @ Jan 16 said:
I think Brady is an outstanding QB but he didn't have a good game against Denver. Shouldn't the loss be blamed on him as every Colts playoff loss is blamed on PM?
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Accomplishment buys you some goodwill. Win championships and your failures aren't viewed as harshly.
 
#34
#34
(hatvol96 @ Jan 16 said:
Accomplishment buys you some goodwill. Win championships and your failures aren't viewed as harshly.
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Unless you are Phil Fulmer :ninja: :biggrin2:
 
#35
#35
(volinbham @ Jan 16 said:
I think Brady is an outstanding QB but he didn't have a good game against Denver. Shouldn't the loss be blamed on him as every Colts playoff loss is blamed on PM?
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No because the reality is that those who know football know that PM is heads and shoulders above the rest. It is perplexing to many why they fail.
As far as big games. many say he could not win the big game in college either. I call the SECCG a big game. Any and all playoff games in the NFL are big games. I think he will get his ring. The sports media is just like the hard news. They have no real ideal on their own. They usually regurgitate what they here others say.
 
#36
#36
(volinbham @ Jan 16 said:
Unless you are Phil Fulmer :ninja: :biggrin2:
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If Fulmer didn't have the national championship on his resume, this year might have been his last. I'd say he's milked a whole lot of goodwill out of his championship.
 
#37
#37
(hatvol96 @ Jan 16 said:
Accomplishment buys you some goodwill. Win championships and your failures aren't viewed as harshly.
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This doesn't apply to Kitna, Brunnell, Leftwich, Grossman. No championships in that group but no headlines suggesting they lost the games for their teams.

PM has been labeled a certain way and from this point forward all stories about Colts wins and losses will have this underlying theme. It's more than just goodwill or badwill from past accomplishments; it's a label. If the Colts go undefeated and win the Superbowl, the stories will still be that he finally stopped screwing up and won rather than just talking about his performance objectively.
 
#38
#38
(volinbham @ Jan 16 said:
This doesn't apply to Kitna, Brunnell, Leftwich, Grossman. No championships in that group but no headlines suggesting they lost the games for their teams.

PM has been labeled a certain way and from this point forward all stories about Colts wins and losses will have this underlying theme. It's more than just goodwill or badwill from past accomplishments; it's a label. If the Colts go undefeated and win the Superbowl, the stories will still be that he finally stopped screwing up and won rather than just talking about his performance objectively.
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I've never seen any headlines giving those guys a disproportionate amount of praise for their team's success. Those guys aren't on every other commercial that runs during games. If Manning's going to accept the accolades, he has to take the heat.
 
#39
#39
Well put hat, well put.

Fulmer needs to SHOW he's capable of coaching or having his Staff coach in 06. NC, SEC, SECE, even TN. State Championship passed Fulmer in 05.
 
#40
#40
(hatvol96 @ Jan 16 said:
I've never seen any headlines giving those guys a disproportionate amount of praise for their team's success. Those guys aren't on every other commercial that runs during games. If Manning's going to accept the accolades, he has to take the heat.
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This doesn't appear to apply to Brett Favre either. He has received every bit as much or more praise for the GBP's success but his terrible performances over the last few years are downplayed as being problems with the team as a whole and not his own personal failures.

Bottomline, it is the underlying theme that is applied in the case of PM that is irksome and IMHO, not justified.
 
#41
#41
(volinbham @ Jan 16 said:
This doesn't appear to apply to Brett Favre either. He has received every bit as much or more praise for the GBP's success but his terrible performances over the last few years are downplayed as being problems with the team as a whole and not his own personal failures.

Bottomline, it is the underlying theme that is applied in the case of PM that is irksome and IMHO, not justified.
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Again, Brett Favre has won one Super Bowl and played in another. The knock on Peyton is, that for all of the individual numbers and accomplishments, his teams fall short of ultimate success. Until he wins, he'll have that stigma. No different than A-Rod, Charles Barkley, or Dan Marino.
 
#42
#42
(hatvol96 @ Jan 16 said:
Again, Brett Favre has won one Super Bowl and played in another. The knock on Peyton is, that for all of the individual numbers and accomplishments, his teams fall short of ultimate success. Until he wins, he'll have that stigma. No different than A-Rod, Charles Barkley, or Dan Marino.
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I agree the stigma exists - it just appears to have started earlier in his career than it did for Marino (most relevant example). It wasn't applied to Marino until his career was ending. It wasn't the theme every time the Dolphins failed to make the playoffs or had playoff losses. Additionally, I believe that it is a bogus stigma in each of the cases cited (not denying it exists). It is rare when one player can overcome the limitations of his/her team, the performance of opposing teams and luck. More frequently, individual players excell when their team excells as well.
 
#43
#43
Yesterday's Colts meltdown is going to bring out alot of anti- Peyton trolls and we're going to be hearing all kinds of BS. As a diehard Vols and Colts fan there was plenty of blame to go around for yesterday's game.

Peyton- I don't blame Peyton for the loss or think he chokes in bg games. He has won plenty of "big games" in his career, we just hear how he can't win them when he does lose. The media/fans don't talk about it when he DOES win them.

Coaching Staff- I think besides the o-line most of the blame or reason lies within the Colts staff. I think resting the players in the final weeks and then having the bye really hurt their play and timming.

Offemsive Line: For those that saw the game I don't have to say much more.

Vandy- I don't totaly blame him either because it shouldn't have came down to a FG. attempt.....but, he does get paid very well to make them.

Defense- We found out yesterday our defense still isn't no where close to where it needs to be.
 
#44
#44
(hatvol96 @ Jan 16 said:
I've never seen any headlines giving those guys a disproportionate amount of praise for their team's success. Those guys aren't on every other commercial that runs during games. If Manning's going to accept the accolades, he has to take the heat.
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Really? Heck man I got so tired of hearing how much better the Bears were because of Rex.
The fact is that PM is so much better than all the others who are currently playing and one of the best ever that it baffles the mind of many why he has not won a SB yet. Marino did get commercials and individual accolades in fact a ton of them because he was a great qb and deserved them. But he was not drilled the way PM has been. It actually started in college. How many remember the Ryan Leafe is a better qb than PM debate that raged?
 
#45
#45
(VolBeef88 @ Jan 16 said:
Really? Heck man I got so tired of hearing how much better the Bears were because of Rex.
The fact is that PM is so much better than all the others who are currently playing and one of the best ever that it baffles the mind of many why he has not won a SB yet. Marino did get commercials and individual accolades in fact a ton of them because he was a great qb and deserved them. But he was not drilled the way PM has been. It actually started in college. How many remember the Ryan Leafe is a better qb than PM debate that raged?
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Not to pile on Manning, but past performance is the best indicator of future performance. Manning hasn't won, or even appeared in, a Super Bowl so I'm not sure why anyone would be baffled that he didn't win this year. I think Brett Favre, Tom Brady, and several other QBs would be surprised to know that they should kneel before Saint Peyton, since they obviously aren't worthy of being allowed to play the same game as him.
 
#46
#46
(hatvol96 @ Jan 16 said:
Not to pile on Manning, but past performance is the best indicator of future performance. Manning hasn't won, or even appeared in, a Super Bowl so I'm not sure why anyone would be baffled that he didn't win this year. I think Brett Favre, Tom Brady, and several other QBs would be surprised to know that they should kneel before Saint Peyton, since they obviously aren't worthy of being allowed to play the same game as him.
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Both are very good QB's (Favre better IMO) not taking anything away from them. The point is that PM has gotten a tremendous amount of neg pub (more than he deserves) compared to other great qb's who did not win a Super Bowl.
So let me ask this. Is winning a Super Bowl the water mark for being a great qb? I mean we know that EVERY qb of the SB winning team was a great qb right? I mean Plunkett was great and more recently the Ravens had a phenominal qb. The media is lazy. They here one make a comment or read a comment and that is the story. It is like that in sports and hard news. I think PM will win a ring before it is all said and done. When he does they will forgive and talk about how long it took but they will stop.
 
#47
#47
Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts, Warren Moon etc. etc. The list is long.
 
#48
#48
(VolBeef88 @ Jan 16 said:
Both are very good QB's (Favre better IMO) not taking anything away from them. The point is that PM has gotten a tremendous amount of neg pub (more than he deserves) compared to other great qb's who did not win a Super Bowl.
So let me ask this. Is winning a Super Bowl the water mark for being a great qb? I mean we know that EVERY qb of the SB winning team was a great qb right? I mean Plunkett was great and more recently the Ravens had a phenominal qb. The media is lazy. They here one make a comment or read a comment and that is the story. It is like that in sports and hard news. I think PM will win a ring before it is all said and done. When he does they will forgive and talk about how long it took but they will stop.
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Not every QB who wins a Super Bowl is great, but most of the QBs who are universally considered great have won one. Aikman, Elway, Favre, Young, etc. Marino was the exception among the great ones because he didn't get a ring. Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, etc. were splendid players, but I wouldn't put them in the class with the aforementioned QBs.
 
#49
#49
(VolBeef88 @ Jan 16 said:
Both are very good QB's (Favre better IMO) not taking anything away from them. The point is that PM has gotten a tremendous amount of neg pub (more than he deserves) compared to other great qb's who did not win a Super Bowl.
So let me ask this. Is winning a Super Bowl the water mark for being a great qb? I mean we know that EVERY qb of the SB winning team was a great qb right? I mean Plunkett was great and more recently the Ravens had a phenominal qb. The media is lazy. They here one make a comment or read a comment and that is the story. It is like that in sports and hard news. I think PM will win a ring before it is all said and done. When he does they will forgive and talk about how long it took but they will stop.
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Plunkett did win twice. Makes it hard to claim it was a fluke. Mark Rypien or Trent Dilfer are the best example of the point you're making.
 
#50
#50
Well, I still like Peyton the same way that UT is still my favorite team. When both seasons start next year, I will once again be a die-hard Vols and Colts fan. Will Peyton ever win the big one? Who knows. But if it ever does happen, it will be the biggest story in all of sports. Let's see how many Peyton bashers jump on the bandwagon then!
 
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