PJ Fleck - snake oil or real deal?

#1
T

tnburban

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#1
I think right now PJ is Butch Jones taken to the next level for now. Lots of coach speak, lots of cliches. 1-0 for the week. Failing is growth. The coach is the light for everyone else. Life coach. Culture. Have an elite night. My how's for you, your how's for everybody else. Players know his favorite slogans by heart. Etc etc...

Watch this. How P.J. Fleck prepares Western Michigan for game day - ESPN Video

Maybe he will be the next Nick Saban, maybe he will sign a $10M deal with some school, get destroyed and fail, but have more money than I will ever have.

But right now it seems to be a lot of talk, hype, and energy. Not a lot on his X's and O's so far as he hasn't really played anyone. Northwestern doesn't count. Maybe he is the real deal, I guess Oregon? or Purdue? will find out...
 
#2
#2
He played in NFL and on coaching staff. And he doesn't look like the kind of guy who went broke blowing money. Very intelligent. I think the row the boat slogan is stupid but I think he will be a good coach. If Purdue or Houston can nab him I don't think they'll regret it.
 
#3
#3
tnburban said:
I think right now PJ is Butch Jones taken to the next level for now. Lots of coach speak, lots of cliches. 1-0 for the week. Failing is growth. The coach is the light for everyone else. Life coach. Culture. Have an elite night. My how's for you, your how's for everybody else. Players know his favorite slogans by heart. Etc etc...

Watch this. How P.J. Fleck prepares Western Michigan for game day - ESPN Video

Maybe he will be the next Nick Saban, maybe he will sign a $10M deal with some school, get destroyed and fail, but have more money than I will ever have.

But right now it seems to be a lot of talk, hype, and energy. Not a lot on his X's and O's so far as he hasn't really played anyone. Northwestern doesn't count. Maybe he is the real deal, I guess Oregon? or Purdue? will find out...
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We will see soon...if they beat Ohio they will be in Cotton Bowl against a good team
 
#4
#4
Hate to admit this, but I had no idea who he was until I googled his name
 
#5
#5
VolnJC said:
We will see soon...if they beat Ohio they will be in Cotton Bowl against a good team
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We'll see how good his X's and O's are then. I think that will tell a lot about him.

But if you watch the ESPN video, he does seem to be more slogan, attitude, catch-phrase oriented rather than football oriented. Maybe he's like Dabo - hires great minds to run the show around him and he just motivates. If that's the case then give him the dollars.

But if he micro manages than he won't last long and 2-3 years from now you'll see PJ Fleck's name on the hotseat at what ever P5 school hires him.
 
#6
#6
Both. Fleck brings a lot of energy to a program. Also a lot of cliches and coach speak, but using catch phrases and the like to unify your players really isn't a new phenomenon. Coaches have been doing this forever, right on down from Tee Ball all the way up to the pros. Ideally Fleck (in his current state) is a guy you bring in to turn around your program if your program has in the dumps and can't establish a winning culture (pardon the buzz word). If he can do it at multiple stops, who knows, his methods are sound and if the players buy in then you've got a simple, winning recipe. All it takes is a little hard work and madness to make it work- something I think Fleck hasl.

Fleck is ready for a P5 job, question is where? Maybe Kansas goes after him? Beaty is getting paid scraps to run that program and well, you get what you pay for there. Cincy may go after him if Tubbz gets canned.
 
#7
#7
I know Urban Meyer and Saban started their HC careers in the MAC, but I would be leery of hiring the latest hot name from the MAC. Darrell Hazell (Kent St.) and Dave Clawson (BG) were the most recent MAC coaches to move up to Power 5 programs and Hazell didn't fair so well and the Claw-fense is not setting the ACC on fire.

Fleck is 29-21. I'd like to see a bigger body of work. But hey, that is just my opinion.
 
#12
#12
What exactly do you mean by snake oil? Great recruiter but can't coach?

I don't know for sure, but I will say that coaches can get away with not being great Xs and Os coaches at that level. At the lower tier schools, if you are a great recruiter, you can just out-talent everybody. It doesn't matter if you can't run your scheme efficiently and consistently - the athleticism covers up all your mistakes.
 
#14
#14
Volunteer_Kirby said:
Both. Fleck brings a lot of energy to a program. Also a lot of cliches and coach speak, but using catch phrases and the like to unify your players really isn't a new phenomenon. Coaches have been doing this forever, right on down from Tee Ball all the way up to the pros. Ideally Fleck (in his current state) is a guy you bring in to turn around your program if your program has in the dumps and can't establish a winning culture (pardon the buzz word). If he can do it at multiple stops, who knows, his methods are sound and if the players buy in then you've got a simple, winning recipe. All it takes is a little hard work and madness to make it work- something I think Fleck hasl.

Fleck is ready for a P5 job, question is where? Maybe Kansas goes after him? Beaty is getting paid scraps to run that program and well, you get what you pay for there. Cincy may go after him if Tubbz gets canned.
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If the man went to Kansas and built them to a respectable level that would say a lot about him. You don't win in anything except basketball there.
 
#15
#15
Looks like Fleck will at least have is pick between Indiana and Purdue....from the outside looks like Hoosiers have more talent. I still believe he's at the top of Oregon's list.
 
#16
#16
PJ was asked about if he will talk to other schools now that the MAC championship game is over. He was quoted as saying: “If you don’t live in the moment you’re going to be miserable, and I don’t want to be miserable."

Have he and CBJ's paths ever crossed somewhere? Sounds just like something Butch would say.
 
#17
#17
give_him 6 said:
PJ was asked about if he will talk to other schools now that the MAC championship game is over. He was quoted as saying: “If you don’t live in the moment you’re going to be miserable, and I don’t want to be miserable."

Have he and CBJ's paths ever crossed somewhere? Sounds just like something Butch would say.
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Or a human.
 
#19
#19
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#20
#20
I just seen the highlights and the score of the game last night. Looks like they almost gave it away there at the end.
 
#21
#21
jjgolfer007 said:
I agree. I read this the other night and it made me think he was even more a goof than butch. https://www.google.com/amp/www.theplayerstribune.com/pj-fleck-western-michigan-keep-rowing/amp/
Last night during the MAC championship, he was wearing a WMU that said ROW on it...you can take the coach out the MAC but you can't take the MAC outta the coach.
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Can't take away what he's done for that program there though. 1-11 his 1st year to undefeated MAC champs now, Pretty impressive. That's why I don't think you can directly tie him to Butch in anyway except cliches. I think he'll be a good coach somewhere soon just won't be Tennessee if I'm guessing
 
#24
#24
Word is Fleck is interested in Oregon. Has refused talking to Purdue. He won't end up at IU or Kansas either, I think he stays at WMU if that's his choices.
 
#25
#25
Very good read on Fleck and the Oregon job. One key quote, and it is all opinion from the writer, but shows the reservation a lot of people have on Fleck:

Fleck's troubles, to me, sit squarely in the idea that the chief boosters involved in this Ducks search (Phil Knight and Pat Kilkenny) are grounded men, who are more interested in substance vs. style.
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PJ Fleck is not tracking well in this Oregon Ducks coaching search | OregonLive.com

This tells me the answer to my original post - I think right now he's seen as a snake oil salesman. If he can sustain it for more than a season, maybe he gets the benefit of the doubt. If he upgrades his job slightly and performs similarly, he gets some real traction.

And then there's this article suggesting Fleck might be perfect for Cincinnati:

Red-hot candidate P.J. Fleck's perfect job (for now) is waiting for him at Cincinnati | NCAA Football | Sporting News

So reading this the two questions here for Fleck are #1) is the AAC an upgrade from the MAC? #2) can he turn a program on the decline around again?

Answers:
#1 probably a yes, by a nose.
#2 if he goes to Cincy, turns it around to conference champs by year 3 or 4, he will have several jobs to choose from among Power 5 schools as the coaching carousel continues.


EDIT -

Here's another writer questioning Fleck as he seems to be in the running for the Oregon job:

Austin Meek: Austin Meek: Is P.J. Fleck a rock star or a one-hit wonder? | Sports | Eugene, Oregon
 
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