OrangeEmpire
The White Debonair
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This began as a response to comments questioning the validity of the observation that our two main American parties are one and the same.
Does any one agree that politics is not idealogy but merely a tool for the implementation of ideology.
I would agree that the Republicans and Democrats are certainly different with respect to their strategies. They target different constituencies and use different rhetoric, but I believe their core ideologies are one and the same.
Both parties strive for power. Politicians struggle for power, there is no clearer message spoken to us by history. Power drives their rhetoric and in a democracy that power comes from majorities. The Democrats know this all too well - Bill Clinton was has been identified as the first president in history to govern according to polling data. (I think this is inaccurate - others did also but it does demonstrate how powerful the office of president has become today.)
If you think the Republicans are any different ask yourself why Congressional Republicans are beginning to scramble for cover, hoping to create a chasm between themselves and Bush's Iraq decisions as we approach 2008.
This is politics, one might say. We have to expect our leaders to be respondent to the wishes of the people. They should be held accountable for their actions. After all, if a crazed lunatic gets into office and launches America into a war that costs billions of dollars and gets thousands killed on the other side of the globe and we don't like it, why, we'll just vote him out of office!
No harm, no foul - that's democracy...the "politics of self-interest". People are self-interested, no doubt. Unfortunately, the founders of the United States knew this all too well which is exactly why they tried to constrain centralized government in the 1780s. They had firsthand experience with the dangers of majorities (often called factions) that caused them to universally condemn "democracy" as "vile"..."turbulent"..."corrupt".
They experienced the ills of faction as a result of legislative supremacy at the state level which resulted in the economic disaster of resorting to the printing press to finance debt, causing inflation. It was majorities that passed state laws in the 1780s that plundered working-class Americans (if such a term can be applied to the time period) in favor of creditors, that rewarded snakes that bought up bonds and paper notes for pennies from Revolutionary War vets who were broke and harbored no hopes of liquidating them at face value, and then used their political influence to pass laws that offered repayment at full value - all while debtors had to sell their property to the merchant-class to stay afloat. Majority rule in cases like this resulted in incidents such as Shay's Rebellion, prompting a national dialouge on the proclivities of unchecked democratic rule at the state and federal levels.
What did the founders learn? With the experiences of these local events they marched off to correct the evils of the Articles of Confederation by centralizing power in a unique way offering such ingenuities as dual-sovereignty and checks and balances among others to create a truly limited central government. What were they afraid of?
Politicans - people such as themselves. They were not afraid of evil people holding the reigns of power, they were afraid of good people. Good people who think they have all the answers are the ones who have mass appeal are are most dangerous. They seek expansion, militarily if necessary. They seek to solve the ills of society with the benevolant use of government coercion. They're dangerous to liberty and security.
I would argue that there were some very insightful men at the Constitutional Convention but they were men we hardly hear about today. Luther Martin, John Dickinson, Roger Sherman...these men seemed to have insight to something that history fails to give them credit for - that the growth of centralized power can at best be slowed but not stopped. If you think I'm wrong read George Mason's objections to the Constitution after the final draft, or read the anti-federalist arguments opposing it. Modern history tends to paint them as backwards hicks from small states who couldn't read or write. ( note that Mason, Patrick Henry were from Virginia, Robert Yates from New York, etc...in fact the biggest battle over ratification was fought in New York itself.)
They understood politics, and they understood it all too well - it's self-interest.
James Madison would argue that the best method of containing majorities (faction) was through an extended republic that would water down competing self-interests, making it difficult for factions to gather enough steam to use the reigns of government to plunder their neighbors.
Madison's words weren't even true in his own day, for the first major development in Washington's presidency was the development of political parties, the illegitimate children spawned by the attempted unification of competing local interests under one "national" umberella. The differences expressed at the Constitutional Convention and the during the ratification debate exploded onto the national scene with such a fury that Thomas Jefferson resigned from Washington's cabinet and the great General himself lamented the development of political parties in his farewell address. What followed? The Alien and Sedition Acts (clearly an attempt silence Republican opposition to the Federalists)...the Bank of the United States - clearly unconstitutional - established as part of a deal brokered for political expediency. And why? To get the good ol' national capital in the South!
Madison's mistake in Federalist no. 10 was that he did not effectively foresee national politics having any local interest...a presumption that is clearly indicated by his argument that there was no need for a Bill of Rights. He's been accused of idealism in this sense. For the better part of the rest of his life the hard-line nationalist at the Philidelphia convention became the limited government republican and enemy of centralized power. I don't think there are too many historians alive that would disagree with the contention that if Madison were here today, he would conclude that something failed.
Part I
Does any one agree that politics is not idealogy but merely a tool for the implementation of ideology.
I would agree that the Republicans and Democrats are certainly different with respect to their strategies. They target different constituencies and use different rhetoric, but I believe their core ideologies are one and the same.
Both parties strive for power. Politicians struggle for power, there is no clearer message spoken to us by history. Power drives their rhetoric and in a democracy that power comes from majorities. The Democrats know this all too well - Bill Clinton was has been identified as the first president in history to govern according to polling data. (I think this is inaccurate - others did also but it does demonstrate how powerful the office of president has become today.)
If you think the Republicans are any different ask yourself why Congressional Republicans are beginning to scramble for cover, hoping to create a chasm between themselves and Bush's Iraq decisions as we approach 2008.
This is politics, one might say. We have to expect our leaders to be respondent to the wishes of the people. They should be held accountable for their actions. After all, if a crazed lunatic gets into office and launches America into a war that costs billions of dollars and gets thousands killed on the other side of the globe and we don't like it, why, we'll just vote him out of office!
No harm, no foul - that's democracy...the "politics of self-interest". People are self-interested, no doubt. Unfortunately, the founders of the United States knew this all too well which is exactly why they tried to constrain centralized government in the 1780s. They had firsthand experience with the dangers of majorities (often called factions) that caused them to universally condemn "democracy" as "vile"..."turbulent"..."corrupt".
They experienced the ills of faction as a result of legislative supremacy at the state level which resulted in the economic disaster of resorting to the printing press to finance debt, causing inflation. It was majorities that passed state laws in the 1780s that plundered working-class Americans (if such a term can be applied to the time period) in favor of creditors, that rewarded snakes that bought up bonds and paper notes for pennies from Revolutionary War vets who were broke and harbored no hopes of liquidating them at face value, and then used their political influence to pass laws that offered repayment at full value - all while debtors had to sell their property to the merchant-class to stay afloat. Majority rule in cases like this resulted in incidents such as Shay's Rebellion, prompting a national dialouge on the proclivities of unchecked democratic rule at the state and federal levels.
What did the founders learn? With the experiences of these local events they marched off to correct the evils of the Articles of Confederation by centralizing power in a unique way offering such ingenuities as dual-sovereignty and checks and balances among others to create a truly limited central government. What were they afraid of?
Politicans - people such as themselves. They were not afraid of evil people holding the reigns of power, they were afraid of good people. Good people who think they have all the answers are the ones who have mass appeal are are most dangerous. They seek expansion, militarily if necessary. They seek to solve the ills of society with the benevolant use of government coercion. They're dangerous to liberty and security.
I would argue that there were some very insightful men at the Constitutional Convention but they were men we hardly hear about today. Luther Martin, John Dickinson, Roger Sherman...these men seemed to have insight to something that history fails to give them credit for - that the growth of centralized power can at best be slowed but not stopped. If you think I'm wrong read George Mason's objections to the Constitution after the final draft, or read the anti-federalist arguments opposing it. Modern history tends to paint them as backwards hicks from small states who couldn't read or write. ( note that Mason, Patrick Henry were from Virginia, Robert Yates from New York, etc...in fact the biggest battle over ratification was fought in New York itself.)
They understood politics, and they understood it all too well - it's self-interest.
James Madison would argue that the best method of containing majorities (faction) was through an extended republic that would water down competing self-interests, making it difficult for factions to gather enough steam to use the reigns of government to plunder their neighbors.
Madison's words weren't even true in his own day, for the first major development in Washington's presidency was the development of political parties, the illegitimate children spawned by the attempted unification of competing local interests under one "national" umberella. The differences expressed at the Constitutional Convention and the during the ratification debate exploded onto the national scene with such a fury that Thomas Jefferson resigned from Washington's cabinet and the great General himself lamented the development of political parties in his farewell address. What followed? The Alien and Sedition Acts (clearly an attempt silence Republican opposition to the Federalists)...the Bank of the United States - clearly unconstitutional - established as part of a deal brokered for political expediency. And why? To get the good ol' national capital in the South!
Madison's mistake in Federalist no. 10 was that he did not effectively foresee national politics having any local interest...a presumption that is clearly indicated by his argument that there was no need for a Bill of Rights. He's been accused of idealism in this sense. For the better part of the rest of his life the hard-line nationalist at the Philidelphia convention became the limited government republican and enemy of centralized power. I don't think there are too many historians alive that would disagree with the contention that if Madison were here today, he would conclude that something failed.
Part I