Positions and responsibilities in basketball

#1

StepCross

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#1
I read the following on another UT message board. It's long, but might spark some discussion.

*****Begin quoted post******

Recently Drew Cannon wrote an interesting article about positions in basketball. His basic idea is that the idea of "five positions" is not accurate; at least, not quite, not exactly accurate.

On defense, of course, you have to be able to guard the five players the opponent trots out there. Thus, you end up having to have some tall players, and some quick players, and you end up with the spectrum we're used to. Let's call the defensive positions D1 through D5, where D1 is expected to guard the PG, D2 the shooting guard, etc. The requirements here are easy to state: every player needs to be quick enough to stay with his man, strong enough not to be pushed around by his man, and tall enough not to be easily "shot over" by his man.

No surprises there.

But the interesting take by Cannon is that the offensive positions are not quite as well-defined. Naturally, you need some things to happen on offense, but it doesn't necessarily matter who does them, as long as they get done. Cannon introduced four "tasks" on offense, and then merged two of them into one. I'm going to keep his idea, but change his offensive tasks. Here are the offensive responsibilities, as I see them.

1. Handler. This is someone capable of bringing the ball down the court and starting the offense. The handler also should be able to go get the ball if the offense stalls, bring it back to the top, and restart things.

2. Shooter. Every team needs an outside shooter, to force the defense to extend and create space in the paint.

3. Scorer. Basketball is a game of probabilities. You win by getting better shots--higher-probability shots, if you will. Thus, you need guys who are able to get into the paint and get a high-percentage shot up, even if guarded. There are two basic ways to do this, and I'm going to lump them since it doesn't much matter which one a team has. You can be a slasher, a guy who gets the ball on the perimeter and drives to the basket; or you can be a post-up guy, who gets the ball in or near the lane with your back to the basket, and abuses a defender. In both cases, the scorer can either create his own open look even though he's guarded; or he can make guarded shots; or he can get fouled. Typically, all of the above, if he's a good scorer.

4. Rebounder. [Here we mean offensive rebounding; obviously everyone is expected to rebound his position on the defensive end.] Like I said, it's a game of probabilities, and sometimes even good shots don't go in. Thus, you want a guy who can pick up the garbage, get offensive rebounds, and keep the possession alive.

5. Distributor. Someone needs to get the ball to the scorers in good spots. Or, get the ball to mere contributors in REALLY good spots. Major Wingate, for example, wasn't ever going to create his own shots or abuse a defender, but if Dane could catch the defense out of position and feed Major for a wide-open dunk, then we've definitely won that possession. A great distributor can mask a lack of great scorers.

[Cannon considers shooters and scorers to be the same thing; I think they're different. Cannon also merges the handler and distributor, and claims that the handler has to be the one who distributes. That's nonsense IMO.]

Now, the prototypical basketball team looks like this:

D1 = handler, distributor
D2 = shooter
D3 = scorer
D4 = scorer, rebounder
D5 = rebounder

But Cannon's main point in his article is that it doesn't HAVE to be that way. Your "guy-who-guards-the-PG" can be your shooter, and your D4 can be your handler, and your D3 your rebounder. Or whatever. There's no particular reason why you have to lump DEFENSIVE responsibilities with offensive ones.

I agree, and in fact, sometimes the best teams have hard-to-define players that are versatile and create matchup problems no matter what the defenses do.

Some recent UT players who maybe don't quite fit the normal mold:

-Prince. Mostly a D3, but quick enough to guard most PG's and tall enough to guard the occasional PF. On offense, a distributor first, scorer second. Not a shooter at all, only average as a rebounder.
-Chism. D4 or D5 interchangeably...he could guard either position. On offense, mostly a scorer but sometimes a shooter (got away with lower outside percentage because he was our big man, and it's a pain to pull a big defender away from the basket to cover Wayne)
-Lofton. D2 or D1, depending on other matchups. Offensively started out as a pure shooter, but grew the confidence and ability to turn into a scorer by his junior year. As a note, a shooter/scorer combo is extremely difficult to guard, because if you play him close he's going to the paint, and if you back off he's shooting. Lofton was very difficult to guard in that stretch. Of course, then he hurt his ankle, and the next year he had cancer. At that point he kind of faded back into pure shooter mode.
-Bradshaw. Pure distributor on offense, from the PF position. Really had no other offensive responsibility. I'm not clear on who he guarded...probably process of elimination most nights.

Thoughts? Did I miss any obvious offensive roles?

*****END QUOTED POST*****
 
#2
#2
It is going to be a pleasure to watch Hopson and Harris this year both playing D3. They will not be easy to stop at all when they are out there together.
 
#3
#3
Bradshaw unlike many of our other players did take the ball to the hole whenever he had the chance. He scored plenty of buckets to move out of the pure distributor role. The man was the swiss army knife of volunteer basketball.

I think Fields will excel at 4. I also think Fields and Williams and Maymon will all play tons better defense than last years group.

Charles Hathaway and CJ Black were the last interior guys who we had who intimidated opponents like this group can. Imagine if Charles and Hamer had been on the same team, and you get the idea of what Fields and Williams have the potential to do.
 
#4
#4
Not trying to rain on the parade, but I think he wasted hundreds of words and time stating the obvious. One thing I would disagree on is the amount of "shooters" on the floor. I think one of your other scorers must also be a "shooter", otherwise you can just clog the paint and shadow the one shooter.

All in all, he didn't really say anything that will revolutionize basketball theory.
 
#5
#5
Calipari has a unique set of helpers.
Aside from assistants and trainers like a normal coach, he also has
B1, or Bagmen
and S2 or Shoemen.

They make it rain and bring in the classes of 4 NBA players every freaking recruiting year.
 
#6
#6
Calipari has a unique set of helpers.
Aside from assistants and trainers like a normal coach, he also has
B1, or Bagmen
and S2 or Shoemen.

They make it rain and bring in the classes of 4 NBA players every freaking recruiting year.

Yeah, but don't feel bad. Bruce had similar helpers in the form of:

P1 & P2- Pump Brothers, exchanging dirty tickets for reach arounds.

and...

C1- Cameraman, taking pictures of illegal recruiting activities at his own home.
 
#7
#7
Yeah, but don't feel bad. Bruce had similar helpers in the form of:

P1 & P2- Pump Brothers, exchanging dirty tickets for reach arounds.

and...

C1- Cameraman, taking pictures of illegal recruiting activities at his own home.
You forget the Bluegrass State's own Larry Marshall. I'd assign him the designation CS.
 
#9
#9
Pump brothers are out of the business and Worldwide We$ is now supposed to be changing his ways as an agent.

It is not difficult to guess which program has more $$$ flowing through it.

Michigan had the Fab 5, UK had last years crop and now 2011 may be even better.

And yes, I am jealous. But I also truly believe that Cal is dirty and that he may be so successful now with getting guys to the NBA that the money and the agents and the shoe contract crap may end and he will never get the hammer from the NCAA.

Calipari may be like a more successful Stringer Bell.
 
#10
#10
Yeah, but don't feel bad. Bruce had similar helpers in the form of:

P1 & P2- Pump Brothers, exchanging dirty tickets for reach arounds.

and...

C1- Cameraman, taking pictures of illegal recruiting activities at his own home.
I can't believe you'd imply the Pumps aren't great philanthropists. At least one person here assured everyone they were on the up and up. Of course, that was one of the naive, uninformed rubes who wouldn't believe Pearl was no more than hypocritical, lying trash.
 
#11
#11
Pump brothers are out of the business and Worldwide We$ is now supposed to be changing his ways as an agent.

It is not difficult to guess which program has more $$$ flowing through it.

Michigan had the Fab 5, UK had last years crop and now 2011 may be even better.

And yes, I am jealous. But I also truly believe that Cal is dirty and that he may be so successful now with getting guys to the NBA that the money and the agents and the shoe contract crap may end and he will never get the hammer from the NCAA.

Calipari may be like a more successful Stringer Bell.

The 2011 class is just stupid good, thats about all one can say. As for Cal you should never say never, anything can happen. But its obvious that he insulates himself well, and with the current level of success might well be able to back off and let it take its course without shady dealings. As they say, don't hate the player....
 
#12
#12
The 2011 class is just stupid good, thats about all one can say. As for Cal you should never say never, anything can happen. But its obvious that he insulates himself well, and with the current level of success might well be able to back off and let it take its course without shady dealings. As they say, don't hate the player....
The game's about to change again. With Vaccaro back on the scene and a new CBA needing to be negotiated, spheres of influence will be altered. Brave new world is on its way.
 
#14
#14
Pump brothers are out of the business and Worldwide We$ is now supposed to be changing his ways as an agent.

It is not difficult to guess which program has more $$$ flowing through it.

Michigan had the Fab 5, UK had last years crop and now 2011 may be even better.

And yes, I am jealous. But I also truly believe that Cal is dirty and that he may be so successful now with getting guys to the NBA that the money and the agents and the shoe contract crap may end and he will never get the hammer from the NCAA.

Calipari may be like a more successful Stringer Bell.

I like the Stringer comparison.

They both get a few good seasons, but Cal is smart enough not to go to the construction site at the end of season 3 when Omar/the NCAA comes for him.

He just goes to a new school and starts over.:p
 
#15
#15
The 2011 class is just stupid good, thats about all one can say. As for Cal you should never say never, anything can happen. But its obvious that he insulates himself well, and with the current level of success might well be able to back off and let it take its course without shady dealings. As they say, don't hate the player....

Bruce Pearl?
 
#16
#16
I read the following on another UT message board. It's long, but might spark some discussion.

*****Begin quoted post******

Recently Drew Cannon wrote an interesting article about positions in basketball. His basic idea is that the idea of "five positions" is not accurate; at least, not quite, not exactly accurate.

On defense, of course, you have to be able to guard the five players the opponent trots out there. Thus, you end up having to have some tall players, and some quick players, and you end up with the spectrum we're used to. Let's call the defensive positions D1 through D5, where D1 is expected to guard the PG, D2 the shooting guard, etc. The requirements here are easy to state: every player needs to be quick enough to stay with his man, strong enough not to be pushed around by his man, and tall enough not to be easily "shot over" by his man.

No surprises there.

But the interesting take by Cannon is that the offensive positions are not quite as well-defined. Naturally, you need some things to happen on offense, but it doesn't necessarily matter who does them, as long as they get done. Cannon introduced four "tasks" on offense, and then merged two of them into one. I'm going to keep his idea, but change his offensive tasks. Here are the offensive responsibilities, as I see them.

1. Handler. This is someone capable of bringing the ball down the court and starting the offense. The handler also should be able to go get the ball if the offense stalls, bring it back to the top, and restart things.

2. Shooter. Every team needs an outside shooter, to force the defense to extend and create space in the paint.

3. Scorer. Basketball is a game of probabilities. You win by getting better shots--higher-probability shots, if you will. Thus, you need guys who are able to get into the paint and get a high-percentage shot up, even if guarded. There are two basic ways to do this, and I'm going to lump them since it doesn't much matter which one a team has. You can be a slasher, a guy who gets the ball on the perimeter and drives to the basket; or you can be a post-up guy, who gets the ball in or near the lane with your back to the basket, and abuses a defender. In both cases, the scorer can either create his own open look even though he's guarded; or he can make guarded shots; or he can get fouled. Typically, all of the above, if he's a good scorer.

4. Rebounder. [Here we mean offensive rebounding; obviously everyone is expected to rebound his position on the defensive end.] Like I said, it's a game of probabilities, and sometimes even good shots don't go in. Thus, you want a guy who can pick up the garbage, get offensive rebounds, and keep the possession alive.

5. Distributor. Someone needs to get the ball to the scorers in good spots. Or, get the ball to mere contributors in REALLY good spots. Major Wingate, for example, wasn't ever going to create his own shots or abuse a defender, but if Dane could catch the defense out of position and feed Major for a wide-open dunk, then we've definitely won that possession. A great distributor can mask a lack of great scorers.

[Cannon considers shooters and scorers to be the same thing; I think they're different. Cannon also merges the handler and distributor, and claims that the handler has to be the one who distributes. That's nonsense IMO.]

Now, the prototypical basketball team looks like this:

D1 = handler, distributor
D2 = shooter
D3 = scorer
D4 = scorer, rebounder
D5 = rebounder

But Cannon's main point in his article is that it doesn't HAVE to be that way. Your "guy-who-guards-the-PG" can be your shooter, and your D4 can be your handler, and your D3 your rebounder. Or whatever. There's no particular reason why you have to lump DEFENSIVE responsibilities with offensive ones.

I agree, and in fact, sometimes the best teams have hard-to-define players that are versatile and create matchup problems no matter what the defenses do.

Some recent UT players who maybe don't quite fit the normal mold:

-Prince. Mostly a D3, but quick enough to guard most PG's and tall enough to guard the occasional PF. On offense, a distributor first, scorer second. Not a shooter at all, only average as a rebounder.
-Chism. D4 or D5 interchangeably...he could guard either position. On offense, mostly a scorer but sometimes a shooter (got away with lower outside percentage because he was our big man, and it's a pain to pull a big defender away from the basket to cover Wayne)
-Lofton. D2 or D1, depending on other matchups. Offensively started out as a pure shooter, but grew the confidence and ability to turn into a scorer by his junior year. As a note, a shooter/scorer combo is extremely difficult to guard, because if you play him close he's going to the paint, and if you back off he's shooting. Lofton was very difficult to guard in that stretch. Of course, then he hurt his ankle, and the next year he had cancer. At that point he kind of faded back into pure shooter mode.
-Bradshaw. Pure distributor on offense, from the PF position. Really had no other offensive responsibility. I'm not clear on who he guarded...probably process of elimination most nights.

Thoughts? Did I miss any obvious offensive roles?

*****END QUOTED POST*****

If you accept all this as fact, it blows away your contention that Bone would be fine as back-up point.
 

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