Prevalence of racism and sexism in postmodern times, Just how bad is it?

#1

OrangeEmpire

The White Debonair
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#1
Openly holding prejudice against people based on their gender or the color of their skin (and increasingly, sexual orientation) is something very few people today would admit to doing. And fewer kinds of people are more sternly frowned upon; espousing racist or sexist views is sure to make one a pariah in most places, and membership in groups such as the KKK effectively amounts to personal and professional suicide. Laws that openly discriminate, such as those requiring seperate facilities for blacks or forbidding women from voting or owning property are (for the most part) happily relagated to the dark ages. If there's one thing people across the political spectrum seem to agree on, it's that equal rights for all is a cornerstone of a decent society.

Yet it is commonly asserted, especially by those of more liberal bent, that racism and sexism still abound. As evidence, income differentials between men and women and higher per capita levels of crime and poverty amongst certain minorities are pointed out. In the social sciences, agreement on the continued influence of racial and gender discrimination is virtually universal, and such discrimination is rooted in values and institutions that are deeply ingrained in western culture.

So this thread is to discuss the following ideas (not necessarily verbatum):

Decades after the rise of the post war civil rights movement and second wave feminism, just how prevalent are racial and sexual discrimination today? Did those movements create changes that are deep and meaningful, or merely cosmetic?

How can we determine just how prevalent racism and sexism are in an era in which they're not normally openly espoused or even tolerated? Just how do we define racism and sexism anyway?

If racism and sexism still prevail, what needs to be done to eradicate them? Are "equal rights before the law" enough, or must society take much more aggressive action to ensure just and fair treatment for all?

If racism and sexiam have generally been eradicated, then why do certain groups insist on their continued prevalence? What would they have to gain by doing so?
 
#2
#2
I guess we'll see when the Clinton/Obama ticket comes about..:whistling:
 
#3
#3
I guess we'll see when the Clinton/Obama ticket comes about..:whistling:
Politics aside and for all the wrong reasons, that ticket would have about the same chance as John Rocker in Harlem.
 
#4
#4
I guess we'll see when the Clinton/Obama ticket comes about..:whistling:

Do you think it will be a Clinton/Obama ticket?

I would think it would have to be a Clinton lacky as VP.

Once the Clinton political machine is rolling Obama will be cannon fodder.

Do you think it will hurt Clinton once Obama is destroyed by her in the political arena?
 
#5
#5
Fighting racism and sexism is a never-ending battle. I believe that those traits, on some level, are there in everybody. Nobody aside from extremist groups such as the KKK are openly racist nowadays. The only kind of racism that exists en large today is not intentional. It's the human instinct that holds prejudices and causes us to believe racial/sexual stereotypes causing all this.

The battle for racial and feminist rights in terms of changed laws is over now. The issue has changed from issues of legality to a true and pure "social" status.

I, like most of you, am prone to having stereotypical views. I have preconceptions of nearly everybody I meet based on how they look. It's not a concious choice I make, it's just how I naturally react to that person. I see a black man dressed in baggy clothing, I think he's a thug with a rough personality. I see some skinny white kid with the nerd look, I get that notion about him.

I don't think we'll ever get rid of those stereotypes. I know we all have our own individual personalities, and it's up to all of us to get to know somebody as a person. Whether or not your personality fits into a stereotype, that's who you are. With all the people I've met, many more than not fit into my preconcieved notion of their personality based on how they look. I see a guy in jeans, flannel and carhartts, I think he's a chew-spittin' farm-livin' good ol' boy. I make an effort to get to know them individually, but most times that's who they actually are.
 
#6
#6
Well said . . . You wouldn't be human if you didn't make judgements based on first impressions. The only thing you can do is make an effort not to act based solely on prejudice.
 
#7
#7
Fighting racism and sexism is a never-ending battle. I believe that those traits, on some level, are there in everybody. Nobody aside from extremist groups such as the KKK are openly racist nowadays. The only kind of racism that exists en large today is not intentional. It's the human instinct that holds prejudices and causes us to believe racial/sexual stereotypes causing all this.

The battle for racial and feminist rights in terms of changed laws is over now. The issue has changed from issues of legality to a true and pure "social" status.

I, like most of you, am prone to having stereotypical views. I have preconceptions of nearly everybody I meet based on how they look. It's not a concious choice I make, it's just how I naturally react to that person. I see a black man dressed in baggy clothing, I think he's a thug with a rough personality. I see some skinny white kid with the nerd look, I get that notion about him.

I don't think we'll ever get rid of those stereotypes. I know we all have our own individual personalities, and it's up to all of us to get to know somebody as a person. Whether or not your personality fits into a stereotype, that's who you are. With all the people I've met, many more than not fit into my preconcieved notion of their personality based on how they look. I see a guy in jeans, flannel and carhartts, I think he's a chew-spittin' farm-livin' good ol' boy. I make an effort to get to know them individually, but most times that's who they actually are.

Good post! :thumbsup:

I would say that racism or racial prejudice is not as prevalent today as it was years ago. This is only a crude estimate based on the number of people I have talked to in my life who have claimed that their parents are racists. It's all I have to go on.

However, when commenting on this issue I always have to make sure there is a clear distinction made between my understanding of racism versus racial prejudice. The two are not the same. Here is my understanding:

Racism is an ideology by which one believes his/her race to be gentically superior to other inferior racists. This sort of thinking has always been around but was thought to be ordained by scientists of the late 19th century who connected the idea to Darwinism and natural selection. Taken to the extreme, this mode of thought resulted in the German racism associated with Nazism.

Racial prejudice I see as people prejudging others based upon race according to preconceived stereotypes. It can also simply mean preferring people of one race over another for whatever reason. Racial prejudice can be a result of racist ideology but need not be.

It becomes silly then to compare the person who prefers to marry another person of his/her race to the racist who claims genetic superiority and the subjugation of inferior races. Silly yes, but unfortunately it happens with regularity. By using the blanket term "racism" to describe any behavior predicated on racial preferences or differences, ambitious people can blur the lines surrounding true racism in order to mold people's views to their vision of society, be it good or bad. The result is that people so fear the label of racist that they act with paranoia concerning all things racial. This taints not only our view of modern society, but also of history. Truthful, candid discussions about such things as slavery and civil rights become difficult if not impossible when filtered through the lense of social justice crafted for us by those who see everything in black and white.

It becomes evident, then, that while racism may not be a continuing part of society for all regions our understanding of the term and its effects are with us daily, as evidenced by this very topic.

Unfortunately, those things viewed as major achievements under the civil rights movement involved the use of government force against private decision-making. Like reconstruction, the civil rights movement then resulted in increased agitation and racial tension in those areas most affected. The Civil Rights Act might sound good in terms of the language being employed but what it actually says is that private individuals may only make decisions involving their livelihood (their private property) that meet with the approval of the State. This amounts to a massive power grab by the Federal government under the color of equal protection before the law and has allowed the State to penetrate further into the lives of private individuals.

Effectively, then, "equality" (a vague and undefined term on the part of progressives) is achieved through government force and the result is our current fixation on all things racial, the result of years of racial antagonism brought on by the policy of forced racial integration.

This is not to say that the civil rights movement was all bad. Where it was confined to affecting public facilities and political rights it can certainly be argued as a good.

The main achievement of the civil rights movement was the education of the American population about race through the words of people like Martin Luther King and others. If most people would stop for a moment they might think that King is most known for a speech he gave on the steps of the Lincoln memorial, demonstrating that private action and open dialouge is much more powerful than laws and regulations. Believe it or not, Americans can be persuaded to change without the coercion of government policy.

Again it depends on the definition of those terms, but I am going to assume (perhaps erroneously) that "racism" and "sexism" refer to treating people differently based upon race/sex. In such case I would ask - who is doing the discrimination and how? So long as the "racist" or "sexist" is not initiating violence against another individual I see no moral justification for interfering with their "racism" with "aggressive action." However, if one wishes to combat silly ideas the best way to do so is through the art of persuasion (as King's legacy informs us).

But this brings up an interesting point: aside from the initiation of violence or theft against certain race groups, the concept of "racism" and "sexism" (howeve defined) is something taking place within the mind of the bigot. Is this a crime? Absolutely not, and here lies the problem. Because of our obsession with all things racial, people behave as if they believe it to be a crime to be a racist, which in turn drives them to look for "evidence" of discrimination to "prove" racism. But this is an impossibility, for one can never "prove" that another person's actions were racially motivated unless the accused makes such an affirmation. The result is that the power of the accusation far outweighs tha ability of the accused to defend against it, making it a handy political tool in a society that has sought to regulate "thought crimes." For a more complete understanding of this phenomenon, see George Orwell's 1984.

Perhaps one of the most potent discussions involving race is based upon the observation of the lower socio-economic status of black people in this country, particularly in larger cities. This, in my opinion, is where our current preoccupation with racial prejudice does the most damage. Many will say this is evidence of institutional racism. Surprisingly, they may be right.

Minimum wage laws began in northern states after poor blacks from the south began migrating to the North. During this time northern whites, looking to protect white labor from black competition (a policy tracing its roots to the Pre-Civil War era) established minimum prices on wage labor. White labor was generally more skilled and experienced than the black migrants, so minimum wage laws effectively imposed a penalty on employers who hired blacks. This produced unemployment among blacks and protected white labor. The result was that black workers found it difficult to enter the job market, develop job skills, and move up the socio-economic ladder.

Now the imposition of minimum wage laws is revealing, for it indicates that blacks were being hired! There would obviously be no need to impose a law for this reason if private discrimination had been effective enough at keeping blacks out of the job market.

The solution to the problem created by this was more government intervention - the Civil Rights Act, federal welfare, and other programs. What have they achieved in the 40 years since they have been implemented? Minorities in larger cities are afflicted with crime, rampant drug abuse, destroyed families, and a climate of government dependency where millions are very nearly wards of the State. Statistics reveal that, before the onset of the Welfare state, black families and white families had comparable divorce rates. Not so today, where black families are subsidized to break up or never get started. Drug laws serve to restrict the supply of drugs thereby raising prices and offering higher profits. This, of course, leads to more people engaging in illegal drug trade and brings on more crime and violence.

If there is a fruitful discussion to be made about "racism" then let us begin with the policies that have produced these disastrous outcomes.
 
#8
#8
I'm not familiar with your views on welfare, but I'm guessing that you're generally against it?

I personally have no opinion on it one way or the other, but I can see how it sets up a system of abuse. Welfare systems were largely interjected into black and hispanic communities, so they have a bad system of abuse going on. The same can also be said for pocket white communities -- the "trailer trash."

Thus, welfare is its own deal, and will affect anybody the same way, no matter their race. It's a seperate issue.

Like I said, the only widespread type of racism left is stereotypes and prejudgement.
 
#9
#9
Well said . . . You wouldn't be human if you didn't make judgements based on first impressions. The only thing you can do is make an effort not to act based solely on prejudice.
Werd. It's the only way to "combat" racism in the US.
 
#10
#10
I'm not familiar with your views on welfare, but I'm guessing that you're generally against it?

I personally have no opinion on it one way or the other, but I can see how it sets up a system of abuse. Welfare systems were largely interjected into black and hispanic communities, so they have a bad system of abuse going on. The same can also be said for pocket white communities -- the "trailer trash."

Thus, welfare is its own deal, and will affect anybody the same way, no matter their race. It's a seperate issue.

Like I said, the only widespread type of racism left is stereotypes and prejudgement.

When I was younger, LOL I am only 26, I used to despise FDR for the New Deal.

Now I understand why FDR did what he did. (On a side note World War II brought us out of the depression not the New Deal.)

LBJ is a different story, no way around it, straight up socialists. Socialism scares the crap out of me, dependency on the government for your every day well being. I do not know if any thing else frightens me more.

I am not totally against welfare but I am against the abuse. Why shouldn't the government say, well its been three years and you have not put forth an effort to gain a job. No more welfare checks are coming.
 
#11
#11
Kind of a thread hijack going on here, and I agree with you that dependence on the government is terrible. But I don't see anything being done about stuff like crazy healthcare costs. Not everybody can be middle class or higher, it's just the way capitalism is set up. I don't see why anybody should have to live without something like decent health care.
 
#12
#12
First, I think a distinction needs to be made between prejudice and racism/sexism/whateverism. Some prejudice (pre-judging) is part of human nature. Racism (to take one ism) is a deeper feeling - borne of hate, fear, a feeling of superior (or fear of inferiority). Too often we see events/comments labeled as racist when they are prejudice at worst.

Second, perpetuating a feeling of oppression is a power source for some. I would not deny that these "isms" still exist. However, some trade in the amplification of such.

Finally, I have first hand witnessed the irony of some from an "oppressed" group try to take down others (the "oppressors") by any means necessary. The targets are guilty simply by pigmentation. The irony is that these efforts to destroy are done in the name of fighting racism. In my particular circumstance, these parties have indeed practiced extreme prejudice if not outright racism. However, they operate under the shield of the "oppressed".
 
#13
#13
Ya'll don't know what it's like being male middle class and white.
 
#14
#14
Kind of a thread hijack going on here, and I agree with you that dependence on the government is terrible. But I don't see anything being done about stuff like crazy healthcare costs. Not everybody can be middle class or higher, it's just the way capitalism is set up. I don't see why anybody should have to live without something like decent health care.

This certainly merits another thread.
 
#15
#15
I, like most of you, am prone to having stereotypical views. I have preconceptions of nearly everybody I meet based on how they look. It's not a concious choice I make, it's just how I naturally react to that person. I see a black man dressed in baggy clothing, I think he's a thug with a rough personality. I see some skinny white kid with the nerd look, I get that notion about him.

I don't think we'll ever get rid of those stereotypes. I know we all have our own individual personalities, and it's up to all of us to get to know somebody as a person. Whether or not your personality fits into a stereotype, that's who you are. With all the people I've met, many more than not fit into my preconcieved notion of their personality based on how they look. I see a guy in jeans, flannel and carhartts, I think he's a chew-spittin' farm-livin' good ol' boy. I make an effort to get to know them individually, but most times that's who they actually are.
I agree with everything you are saying here, and I am pretty much the same way. If you look at it though, all of these stereotypes are based on how a person is dressed and not what color their skin is. Let's look at your black guy in baggy clothes. If I see a white guy in those same baggy clothes I think he is a thug too. On the other hand, if I see a black man in a suit, I think he is a businessman. I think your last statement is a fair assessment. Most of the time, the way a person chooses to dress will tell us about that person. Not always, but most of the time.

Having said that, I think people are more likely to hold sexual stereotypes. If you needed major car repairs and the first shop you went to had all female mechanics, would you be comfortable hiring them? How about a daycare center which had all men as childcare workers?
 
#16
#16
I disagree on the bigotry not being as prevalent as it used to be. Have you noticed the tone on immigration with many groups? Or what about Islam and those from the Middle East? I've heard some pretty broad generalizations and stereotypes just on those two issues alone.
 
#17
#17
I disagree on the bigotry not being as prevalent as it used to be. Have you noticed the tone on immigration with many groups? Or what about Islam and those from the Middle East? I've heard some pretty broad generalizations and stereotypes just on those two issues alone.
You are right that the tone on immigration is pretty bad. It's essentially the same as it has always been with the Irish, the Italians, and many other ethnic groups. The first large wave are always treated as the dregs of society. That's not right, but that's the way it has always been.

Considering the history of violence with Middle Eastern Muslims, I don't consider it bigotry to be leery, it's common sense.
 

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