Question concerning E85

#1
T

therealUT

Rational Thought Allowed?
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#1
At the present moment, it takes more capital to get one btu out of corn, in the form of E85, than it takes to get one btu out of oil, in the form of gasoline. Due to government subsidies (and a lower government tax at the pump), the cost to the consumer for 1 btu of energy is very nearly identical for E85 and 87 Octane.

This being the case, what are some thoughts on using such a great amount of corn for a net energy loss, than using it to actually feed people (USAID for Africa, for example)?
 
#2
#2
I saw a story about the rising cost of beer in Germany due to using malt for bio-fuels. Similarly, the price of tortilla's has gone up rapidly in Mexico due to switching corn to fuel production.
 
#3
#3
therealUT said:
At the present moment, it takes more capital to get one btu out of corn, in the form of E85, than it takes to get one btu out of oil, in the form of gasoline. Due to government subsidies (and a lower government tax at the pump), the cost to the consumer for 1 btu of energy is very nearly identical for E85 and 87 Octane.

This being the case, what are some thoughts on using such a great amount of corn for a net energy loss, than using it to actually feed people (USAID for Africa, for example)?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what these numbers consider....is this just a straight energy calculation? If so, then it likely lacks the octane boost that ethanol offers....esentially increasing the efficiency of combustion and allowing more miles per gallon - which is really what we care about in a car - not how many BTU's are produced by the fuel, but how many miles. Also, is this energy balance taking into account the recycled materials from the biofuel process - because this can actually have a significant effect on the energy balance.

With that said, I think that future biofuel markets will have to address the concern you raise - are we prepared for wide-spread implementation of a biofuel market that competes with out food prices. My opinion is that corn based ethanol is not a reasonable approach for answering future fuel concerns. If we are interested in biofuels for cars, then we need to focus on switchgrass and celluosic carbon - not corn.
 
#5
#5
volinbham said:
I saw a story about the rising cost of beer in Germany due to using malt for bio-fuels. Similarly, the price of tortilla's has gone up rapidly in Mexico due to switching corn to fuel production.
Click to expand...

This has got to be an urban legend driven by opponents of ethanol. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a believer that ethanol is the savior we need to solve our energy problems, but this seems like something that was created to get Joe Sixpack up in arms about paying higher beer prices and not getting free chips and salsa at the Mexican restaurant due to the rising price of corn. :birgits_giggle: :crazy:
 
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