Question for Basketball Aficinados

#1
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rockydoc

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#1
Why does it appear that most basketball players, in contrast to football players, are about as good as freshmen or sophomores as they are juniors and seniors. Take for example Tyler Smith and JP Prince, they don't appear to have progressed in the last two years, and compare that to senior football players like Crompton, Hardesy, Dan Williams etc. Could it be that strength is more of a factor in football?:unsure:
 
#2
#2
rockydoc said:
Why does it appear that most basketball players, in contrast to football players, are about as good as freshmen or sophomores as they are juniors and seniors. Take for example Tyler Smith and JP Prince, they don't appear to have progressed in the last two years, and compare that to senior football players like Crompton, Hardesy, Dan Williams etc. Could it be that strength is more of a factor in football?:unsure:
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Coaching, coaching.....and coaching.

Not trying to sound contrite, or as if I am downgrading your question. Sometimes its really 50/50. A player has to be willing to work and go as far as he can go on his own, the other 50% is up to someone to teach, nurture and grow the kids talents.

Obviously you can see where I am going with this.....
 
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#3
#3
Wayne Chism
2006-2007 - PPG: 9.1, Reb: 5.2, Ast: .9, FG%: .441, FT%: .587 with 19.4 MPG
2007-2008 - PPG: 9.9, Reb: 5.8, Ast: 1.1, FG%: .470, FT%: .556 with 22.9 MPG
2008-2009 - PPG: 13.7, Reb: 8.0, Ast: 1.2, FG%: .466, FT%: .716 with 25.7 MPG

Brian Williams
2007-2008 – PPG: 2.8, Reb: 3.5, Ast: .4, FG% .603, FT%: .500 with 11.2 MPG
2008-2009 – PPG: 5.0, Reb: 5.6, Ast: .7, FG% .538, FT% .509 with 16.4 MPG

JP Prince
2005-2006 – PPG: 2.2, Reb: 1.9, Ast: 1.8, FG% .286, FT% .400 with 12.4 MPG
2007-2008 – PPG: 8.0, Reb: 3.2, Ast: 1.8, FG% .497, FT% .557 with 18.8 MPG
2008-2009 – PPG 9.9, Reb: 4.2, Ast: 3.1, FG% .572, FT% .610 with 26.4 MPG

Tyler Smith is the only player that has not progressed. No one has progressed since last year but it's 10 games into the season. I'll make that assumption once the season is over or at least half way.
 
#4
#4
Shaun1985 said:
Wayne Chism
2006-2007 - PPG: 9.1, Reb: 5.2, Ast: .9, FG%: .441, FT%: .587 with 19.4 MPG
2007-2008 - PPG: 9.9, Reb: 5.8, Ast: 1.1, FG%: .470, FT%: .556 with 22.9 MPG
2008-2009 - PPG: 13.7, Reb: 8.0, Ast: 1.2, FG%: .466, FT%: .716 with 25.7 MPG

Brian Williams
2007-2008 – PPG: 2.8, Reb: 3.5, Ast: .4, FG% .603, FT%: .500 with 11.2 MPG
2008-2009 – PPG: 5.0, Reb: 5.6, Ast: .7, FG% .538, FT% .509 with 16.4 MPG

JP Prince
2005-2006 – PPG: 2.2, Reb: 1.9, Ast: 1.8, FG% .286, FT% .400 with 12.4 MPG
2007-2008 – PPG: 8.0, Reb: 3.2, Ast: 1.8, FG% .497, FT% .557 with 18.8 MPG
2008-2009 – PPG 9.9, Reb: 4.2, Ast: 3.1, FG% .572, FT% .610 with 26.4 MPG

Tyler Smith is the only player that has not progressed. No one has progressed since last year but it's 10 games into the season. I'll make that assumption once the season is over or at least half way.
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Numbers don't lie, all three of those have "progressed" in some way, shape or form. Cannot argue against it. But I would ask.....

Have they progressed in areas such as:

1) Decision making

2) Basketball IQ

3) Work ethic


I don't get to watch as MUCH UT hoops as I would like, but I feel that I have seen enough to say that the three areas I highlighted are still severly lacking.

IMO, all three are directly linked to the ability of their coach to provide instruction.

Not disagreeing with you here, just throwing some things out there.
 
#5
#5
I agree. The only stat that shows a better work ethic is the huge improvement from Wayne Chism and his FT's. He was amazing last year. This years stats are horrible but I'm seriously SERIOUSLY hoping this changes. I'm officially holding judgment against Pearl for two weeks. After the embarrassing performance I seen against USC, we have Memphis, Charlotte, and Kansas all coming up. If he changed nothing, than I lose every ounce of faith in Pearl. I think we find out a lot soon.
 
#6
#6
Wayne's number are down so far this year. Most disturbingly, the rebounding number. I could care less about his points
 
#7
#7
Im sorry but im officially off the pearl bandwagon until he emphasizes ball pressure i mean seriously its not that hard!
 
#8
#8
If you look at his career average at the perimeter, this shows how clueless Pearl must be to continue letting him shoot it. If he's trying to be a double threat down low and outside, than take a majority of your shots inside and rebound. With Wayne staying in the post 90% of the time, I think the score fluctuates at least 8-10 points (by offensive rebounds, kick backs, or put ins). It has too.
 
#9
#9
kiffincrazy28 said:
Im sorry but im officially off the pearl bandwagon until he emphasizes ball pressure i mean seriously its not that hard!
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The press was pretty solid last year...This year, I have no clue what the deal is. The Vols have sleptwalk through every game this season except for the Purdue game and it finally bit them against USC. These players lack heart, motivation, and hustle at the moment.
 
#10
#10
Shaun1985 said:
If you look at his career average at the perimeter, this shows how clueless Pearl must be to continue letting him shoot it. If he's trying to be a double threat down low and outside, than take a majority of your shots inside and rebound. With Wayne staying in the post 90% of the time, I think the score fluctuates at least 8-10 points (by offensive rebounds, kick backs, or put ins). It has too.
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I've said this all season long. If Wayne stays in the post all game long, he averages at least 20 and 10. He is that good. We need him WAY more so in the paint putting in work than on the perimeter floating. Example: I have had the pleasure of watching Kenneth Faried play my school twice a season(three times last year) for the past two years. He is the hardest worker I have seen in the paint and that kind of play is what helps your team win games if you are a post player. Is he the tallest? Is he the strongest? No and no. He does have a passion for rebounding that led him and his team to the NCAA tournament berth out of the OVC and also to being named one of the Top 100 draft prospects after his NCAA performance last year. Take notes Wayne, you will get to the league without jacking three pointers all game long. Faried is an inch shorter and 25 pounds lighter but he WANTS to scrap and WANTS to rebound. If Chism reverts back to how he played against Vandy last year(18 points, 18 boards) this team becomes A LOT more complete and competitive.
 
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#11
#11
rockydoc said:
Why does it appear that most basketball players, in contrast to football players, are about as good as freshmen or sophomores as they are juniors and seniors. Take for example Tyler Smith and JP Prince, they don't appear to have progressed in the last two years, and compare that to senior football players like Crompton, Hardesy, Dan Williams etc. Could it be that strength is more of a factor in football?:unsure:
Click to expand...

In football, it takes a player a bit longer for his body to develop to division I caliber in a lot of cases. Also, football requires a more complete understanding of a scheme and whatnot. Basketball (especially the way we've played it lately) is more of a one-on-one game of skills and quickness, and not so dependent on out and out strength coupled with the other two.

Essentially, it's basketball's relative simplicity compared to football (and the fact that a player can be vastly undersized for his frame and still make an impact via his athleticism a la Kevin Durant) that allows for players to more easily succeed early in their careers in basketball. As for the lack of progress from freshman to senior year, that's a matter of complacency to some degree on both the coaches' and the players' parts. It takes hard work to greatly improve once you're at a certain level, and many players are complacent with where they are. They don't want to take it a step further.
 
#13
#13
Look Wayne Chism is not a post player in the next level...He has to be able to shot the ball. If he stays down in the paint he might have some points but I do think he should get to the line more often. I dont really mind him being at the top of the key because that brings the Big Man who is guarding him to the top of the key as well. That opens up lanes for our slashers to get to the basket. The problem we are having is we are not knocking down open shots...

We dont have a skilled point guard who controls the court, sets things up and makes plays happen. Maze is a decent point guard but he is not great....Goins plays way to timid right now and "sweet Tea Mcbee" has not hit a shot it seems like...Tatum, Prince and Hopson are streaky and Tyler Smith is trying to pass the ball more then take the ball to the basket. This whole team seems to not be molding together as quickly as they need too...

I think Bruce Pearl has to sit this team down and really question whats goin on...I have not seen much heart from any of these players and I have seen a lot of uncontrolled and selfish basketball...Some of these guys need to quit trying to force things and let the game come to them...
 
#14
#14
m37bruno said:
Look Wayne Chism is not a post player in the next level...He has to be able to shot the ball. If he stays down in the paint he might have some points but I do think he should get to the line more often. I dont really mind him being at the top of the key because that brings the Big Man who is guarding him to the top of the key as well. That opens up lanes for our slashers to get to the basket. The problem we are having is we are not knocking down open shots...

We dont have a skilled point guard who controls the court, sets things up and makes plays happen. Maze is a decent point guard but he is not great....Goins plays way to timid right now and "sweet Tea Mcbee" has not hit a shot it seems like...Tatum, Prince and Hopson are streaky and Tyler Smith is trying to pass the ball more then take the ball to the basket. This whole team seems to not be molding together as quickly as they need too...

I think Bruce Pearl has to sit this team down and really question whats goin on...I have not seen much heart from any of these players and I have seen a lot of uncontrolled and selfish basketball...Some of these guys need to quit trying to force things and let the game come to them...
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How in the world is Wayne not a post player at the next level? Have you seen what he can do in the post when he puts his mind to it? EIGHTEEN REBOUNDS.
 
#15
#15
rockydoc said:
Why does it appear that most basketball players, in contrast to football players, are about as good as freshmen or sophomores as they are juniors and seniors. Take for example Tyler Smith and JP Prince, they don't appear to have progressed in the last two years, and compare that to senior football players like Crompton, Hardesy, Dan Williams etc. Could it be that strength is more of a factor in football?:unsure:
Click to expand...

They aren't. You are using a small sample size and a biased eye to make a general rule. Barring injury, any guy who spends 3 or 4 years constantly working on his game against top level competition is going to improve.
 
#18
#18
lylsmorr said:
How in the world is Wayne not a post player at the next level? Have you seen what he can do in the post when he puts his mind to it? EIGHTEEN REBOUNDS.
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Yeah I can see Wayne Chism guarding D. Howard, Tim Duncan, SHAQ, Kevin.G, Bosch, Pau Gasol, Yao Ming, Amare Stoudemire, Andrew Bynum?????? haha you have to be joking right???

Heck no this dude is a 4 at the NBA level. He does not post up well at all. Just because he grabs rebounds in college does not mean he is a POST...He has a pretty decent Shot for 6'9 so he needs to improve that. Chism needs to be able to dribble and drive if he is going to play a big role at the next level. I can see him being more like a Varejo though...

The NBA is full of guys Wayne Chisms Height and size that can dribble the ball and shoot the ball from anywhere on the court. Your lamar Odoms, Dirk's, Josh Howards, Rasheed Wallace, Lebron James... type guys....I just dont think Chism is cut out to be a post at the next level he is not big enough.
 
#19
#19
m37bruno said:
Yeah I can see Wayne Chism guarding D. Howard, Tim Duncan, SHAQ, Kevin.G, Bosch, Pau Gasol, Yao Ming, Amare Stoudemire, Andrew Bynum?????? haha you have to be joking right???

Heck no this dude is a 4 at the NBA level. He does not post up well at all. Just because he grabs rebounds in college does not mean he is a POST...He has a pretty decent Shot for 6'9 so he needs to improve that. Chism needs to be able to dribble and drive if he is going to play a big role at the next level. I can see him being more like a Varejo though...

The NBA is full of guys Wayne Chisms Height and size that can dribble the ball and shoot the ball from anywhere on the court. Your lamar Odoms, Dirk's, Josh Howards, Rasheed Wallace, Lebron James... type guys....I just dont think Chism is cut out to be a post at the next level he is not big enough.
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OR, maybe...JUST MAYBE. He could work on all that instead of his shot. It would help UT out and his career I imagine. You're crazy if you think there is no way possible that Chism can play the post in the NBA. Would he need a lot of work to do so? Yeah. He's about Carlos Boozer's size, and look at the work Boozer does in the post. If he puts muscle on and improves his post moves, he can definitely make it in the league as a 4.
 
#20
#20
kiffincrazy28 said:
Im sorry but im officially off the pearl bandwagon until he emphasizes ball pressure i mean seriously its not that hard!
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The only problem with this is, our guys are not quick enough to stay with their man when they pressure them. Maze hounds the opponents PG with great pressure for about 2 seconds, and then he is easily blown right by with a simple crossover. And he is not the only one, just the most frequent.
 
#21
#21
#1ArencibiaFan said:
The only problem with this is, our guys are not quick enough to stay with their man when they pressure them. Maze hounds the opponents PG with great pressure for about 2 seconds, and then he is easily blown right by with a simple crossover. And he is not the only one, just the most frequent.
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Agreed. If anything, Pearl needs to deemphasize pressure in the halfcourt on guys that we simply can not guard off the bounce so we don't end up making players like the pg from USC look like Steve Nash.
 
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