Ramblings of a Fulmer Critic

[jakez4ut]

You can't base an entire career on 1 play. If you excuse that play for Arkansas, you set precendant to allow CPF do the same for last season's bad plays. Now the 10 or so plays that compile to create 6 losses this past season, I don't excuse..... but the Vols were awesome in 1998 and no one can take that away. If Fulmer's job was based on the 2005 season... or even the 2002 season, then he should be fired. But should be judged on ALL his seasons since 1992. If the Vols don't win more than 7 games next season, then alot of people will get their wish and Fulmer will be gone. However, if the Vols win the sec or even the national championship next season.... will those same people be happy or crying????

ah, finally.....you mean you have to actually look at his ENTIRE career? i hadn't heard that allvol....i thought it was all based on 2000, 2002 and 2005....?

Seriously though, you bring up a good point, one that i tired to get across in another thread i started....and if we come out have a 7-5, or worse, reg. season next year, then there really won't be anywhere else to point the finger...CPF did get his guy in CDC....and has let him hire who he wants. I think for anyone to consider successfull seaons starting in 06, you have to start at the 9 win mark. 8 wins will be mediocre, 7 would just be bad. and i'd hate to see what happens if we have fewer than that.

Having said that, i still think he gets next year, provided he has a winning record, and the next to see if he can get it turned around....this will not be longer than a 2 year project.....and truthfully, and personally i think we'll finish 9-3 next season anyway, we should see some immediate improvement next season.

 

[allvol]

As far as highest winning percentage, that is all the Fulmer supporters have. None of them still address the lack of high payout BCS bowl games, drought of SEC championships, finishing out of the top 10, or general lack of productivity since 98.

Did Fulmer win his NC in 98 and feel like he had a free ride the rest of his life? I know that isn't how it works in my line of work.

I agree to a certain extent. Fulmer is also suffering for his own success. After 1998, it appeared that the Vols were on the verge of becoming the next Florida State or Nebraska. Both of them had a great decade. Florida State won national titles in 1993 & 1999 and played for them in 1996, 1998, & 2000. Nebraska won national titles in 1994 , 1995 & 1997 and played for one in 1993.

Instead, fans were treated to a letdown 9-3 season in 1999. However, they still were in contention for the NC until they lost at Arkansas in late November. 2000 was a rebuilding year with a freshman quarterback. 2001 built up the expectations again. The Vols were a 4th quarter away from playing Miami in the Rose Bowl. 2002 was marketed as "taking care of unfinished business". The Vols floundered to a 8-5 record and an embarrassing bowl loss to Maryland. That is the first time I realized that the Vols had not ascended to elite status. The Vols had reverted to the uneven play during Johnny Majors tenure in 1980's.

I want the Vols to be one of the Elite. I'd like them to have another run like the late '90s... only this time win more SECCGs and NCs during the run to be compared historically with the all-time great teams. In my lifetime, Phil Fulmer is the only UT coach to even come close to that kind of reality. Can he do it again? We can only watch and see. But in comparison to recent history, he's still done a much better job than the previous coaches since Neyland walked the sidelines. If I thought another coach could come in and do better immediately, I'd be the first in line to fire Phil Fulmer. However, I don't believe there is anyone who can recruit, manage, and coach the Tennessee Vols at this particular time. There might be program builders out there that could take 4 seasons and build the Vols back to elite status. But I believe that Fulmer has the talent and coaching staff to do it in 2006.

I grew as a Tennessee fan in the midst of an 11 year losing streak to Alabama. Then the Vols went on another 9 game non-winning streak against Alabama. The talk amongst fans was the odd year - even year theory.... where the Vols won 8+ games during the odd years. The Vols went 15 straight seasons without an SEC Championship. The only consensus national championship was in 1951. Losses to teams like North Texas State, Army, Rutgers, Duke, etc. mounted. Close games with teams like Wake Forest, Wichita State, Texas-El Paso, etc.

The Vols have won 8 SEC Titles since Neyland retired in 1952. 1956, 1967, 1969, 1985, 1989, 1990, 1997, & 1998.

The Vols have only had 2 coaches since the SEC split into divisions and played a championship game. Majors coached 8 games in 1992. Phil Fulmer has coached since 1993. Fulmer has coached in 4 SEC Championship Games, the only coach in UT history to coach a team in the SECCG.

 

[jakez4ut]

i think you and i are on the same page allvol. It's not so much about CPF as it is the status of the program, and what is going to a)regain some status we've lost from the 90's and b)keep us there. it just so happens the CPF has been a big part of that run in the 90's, and he is responsible for the wins as much as he is for the losses.

and w/out a sure thing as a replacement, i don't see the need to change anything until it has been proven that what got us there does not work at all any longer.

right now is a pivotal time for CPF...he's made some fairly significant changes, and needed to. we'll find out how those affect everything soon enough, but one thing is for sure...he'll wind up being the hero or the goat depending on how this pans out....

Good post.

 

[wilburnVol]

Its sad that a few people are so much into hating Phil Fulmer that they are now trying to tarnish the 13-0 National Championship Season of 1998.

Oh blow it. The NC as all NCs are tarnished by the luck required to obtain one. Even Fulmer claimed that was the case.

Its sad that a few people are so much into sheeping Phil Fulmer that they are now trying to fantasize the 13-0 National Championship Season of 1998. :banghead:

 

[wilburnVol]

Good post.

Thanks. :air_kiss:

 

[OWB]

Toothpick anyone?

 

[wilburnVol]

I've always had a warm spot in my heart for all the young men who have chosen to come to Tennessee. That doesn't mean I condone bad behavior from them any more than I would from my own sons. But I won't stop loving them because some of them made some mistakes along the way either.

All of the young men you mentioned have good reason to be applauded for their accomplishments at UT.

It is also true that some of our young men have endeared themselves even more with their behavior while on campus, and after they left or graduated.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: You are so sweet, OldVol. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

 

[jakez4ut]

how's the trolling today wilburn?

 

[wilburnVol]

Who the hell here says that is acceptable for a school with the history of this program, 100000 seat stadium, a $60 million budget or so, a $2million head coach, and all the fan support that this program gets?

They do. The sheeps.

[attachmentid=4496]

 

[wilburnVol]

how's the trolling today wilburn?

How's the sister, Bammer?

 

[jakez4ut]

apparently pretty well...good luck good buddy.
Go Vols.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

I agree to a certain extent. Fulmer is also suffering for his own success. After 1998, it appeared that the Vols were on the verge of becoming the next Florida State or Nebraska. Both of them had a great decade. Florida State won national titles in 1993 & 1999 and played for them in 1996, 1998, & 2000. Nebraska won national titles in 1994 , 1995 & 1997 and played for one in 1993.

Instead, fans were treated to a letdown 9-3 season in 1999. However, they still were in contention for the NC until they lost at Arkansas in late November. 2000 was a rebuilding year with a freshman quarterback. 2001 built up the expectations again. The Vols were a 4th quarter away from playing Miami in the Rose Bowl. 2002 was marketed as "taking care of unfinished business". The Vols floundered to a 8-5 record and an embarrassing bowl loss to Maryland. That is the first time I realized that the Vols had not ascended to elite status. The Vols had reverted to the uneven play during Johnny Majors tenure in 1980's.

I want the Vols to be one of the Elite. I'd like them to have another run like the late '90s... only this time win more SECCGs and NCs during the run to be compared historically with the all-time great teams. In my lifetime, Phil Fulmer is the only UT coach to even come close to that kind of reality. Can he do it again? We can only watch and see. But in comparison to recent history, he's still done a much better job than the previous coaches since Neyland walked the sidelines. If I thought another coach could come in and do better immediately, I'd be the first in line to fire Phil Fulmer. However, I don't believe there is anyone who can recruit, manage, and coach the Tennessee Vols at this particular time. There might be program builders out there that could take 4 seasons and build the Vols back to elite status. But I believe that Fulmer has the talent and coaching staff to do it in 2006.

I grew as a Tennessee fan in the midst of an 11 year losing streak to Alabama. Then the Vols went on another 9 game non-winning streak against Alabama. The talk amongst fans was the odd year - even year theory.... where the Vols won 8+ games during the odd years. The Vols went 15 straight seasons without an SEC Championship. The only consensus national championship was in 1951. Losses to teams like North Texas State, Army, Rutgers, Duke, etc. mounted. Close games with teams like Wake Forest, Wichita State, Texas-El Paso, etc.

The Vols have won 8 SEC Titles since Neyland retired in 1952. 1956, 1967, 1969, 1985, 1989, 1990, 1997, & 1998.

The Vols have only had 2 coaches since the SEC split into divisions and played a championship game. Majors coached 8 games in 1992. Phil Fulmer has coached since 1993. Fulmer has coached in 4 SEC Championship Games, the only coach in UT history to coach a team in the SECCG.

This is probably the best post that I have read since joining and it completely expresses why I let myself join in with the bashers and Fulmer haters for awhile. I grew up watching UT in the 70s and 80s when there was little else to cheer for sportswise in the state. For a longtime it was not very satisfying to be a Vol fan if you cared about winning on a consistent basis. Then in the 1990s it seemed like we were really building our way towards being another Fl. State, Nebraska, Penn State, Notre Dame, or Miami - type dynasty and just when we were finally right there at the doorstep it started to come unravelled. I know that all of those programs have had their ups and downs as well but all of them have been at the top of the mountain (more than once) and you can make a pretty strong argument that all of them will get there again before too long (I know Nebraska might be a stretch but you get the idea). I love the Vols and I want us to be thought of on the same level as those teams every year. Perennial BCS contenders. That should be the goal every year and we should have 5* recruits begging to come here every year, even after a down year. Maybe that is completely unrealistic but that is what I want for Big Orange football.

 

[jakez4ut]

well said HB...definitely understand what you are getting at there, and why it is very easy to get on CPF....

Let's hope he makes good on getting it fixed and back in that direction....it'll be a much happier volnation....

 

[KentheOrange]

Does the same unconditional love apply to Jamal Lewis, Carl Pickens, Kelly Washington, or any of a host of Vols who have been unfairly maligned on this board? Or does this mandatory affection only apply to sacred cow QBs?

Kelly Washington unfairly maligned? The sign says "I will give my all for Tennessee today", not "I will give Tennessee only what I think will help me get to the next level".

 

[hatvol96]

Kelly Washington unfairly maligned? The sign says "I will give my all for Tennessee today", not "I will give Tennessee only what I think will help me get to the next level".

Yeah, that's right. Washington should have played with a serious neck injury. I mean, what's his future compared with the opportunity to bring happiness to a bunch of beer gutted fans who wouldn't have the time of day for him if he weren't a football player? I'm sure UT would have taken care of him had he suffered a dibilitating injury. Look at how well they took care of Chuck Webb. I'm sure all UT did for him was a sufficient substitute for the millions he lost due to his injury.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

It's a shame what happened to Chuck Webb, no doubt about it. Football can be a dangerous game and there is always a threat of injury every time you suit up. If the NFL picked players on raw ability alone then we would just use DNA tests to determine who has the best athletic ability at birth and then we could segregate those super athletes into a special community where they would never be at risk of injury until they were old enough to sign a contract. Sounds kind of stupid, doesn't it? You have to play to learn the game and if you're going to take up a scholarship and a place on the team then you should play as hard and fast as you can every down.

 

[volmanjr]

and not single yourself out as the "Future", it's still a team sport.

 

[jakez4ut]

It's a shame what happened to Chuck Webb, no doubt about it. Football can be a dangerous game and there is always a threat of injury every time you suit up. If the NFL picked players on raw ability alone then we would just use DNA tests to determine who has the best athletic ability at birth and then we could segregate those super athletes into a special community where they would never be at risk of injury until they were old enough to sign a contract. Sounds kind of stupid, doesn't it? You have to play to learn the game and if you're going to take up a scholarship and a place on the team then you should play as hard and fast as you can every down.

I saw that movie!!! wasn't that Gattica?

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

:lolabove: :lolabove: :lolabove:

 

[U-T]

You can't base an entire career on 1 play. If you excuse that play for Arkansas, you set precendant to allow CPF do the same for last season's bad plays. Now the 10 or so plays that compile to create 6 losses this past season, I don't excuse..... but the Vols were awesome in 1998 and no one can take that away. If Fulmer's job was based on the 2005 season... or even the 2002 season, then he should be fired. But should be judged on ALL his seasons since 1992. If the Vols don't win more than 7 games next season, then alot of people will get their wish and Fulmer will be gone. However, if the Vols win the sec or even the national championship next season.... will those same people be happy or crying????

Allvol, you actually trying to use reason and logic with them?

Good luck.

If we win the SEC, you will have these people bitching and moaning about how we lost a single game or maybe two instead of going undefeated.

The only purpose for many of the babies is solely to get rid of Fulmer, which is sad in itself

 

[rockydoc]

Allvol, you actually trying to use reason and logic with them?

Good luck.

If we win the SEC, you will have these people bitching and moaning about how we lost a single game or maybe two instead of going undefeated.

The only purpose for many of the babies is solely

to get rid of Fulmer

, which is sad in itself

No sir. Based on last year he(CPF) is doing a good job of that himself! :

 

[allvol]

Oh blow it. :banghead:

keep your sheep fantasies to yourself wilburnVol :blink:

 

[VolBeef88]

Allvol, you actually trying to use reason and logic with them?

Good luck.

If we win the SEC, you will have these people bitching and moaning about how we lost a single game or maybe two instead of going undefeated.

The only purpose for many of the babies is solely to get rid of Fulmer, which is sad in itself

I agree with you but will add that they will say that it was all Cut and that UT should fire CPF and hire Cut.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

I agree with you but will add that they will say that it was all Cut and that UT should fire CPF and hire Cut.

Did someone show you the advance sheet for hater talking points '06? I want to know who the leak is.

 

[rockydoc]

This is probably the best post that I have read since joining and it completely expresses why I let myself join in with the bashers and Fulmer haters for awhile. I grew up watching UT in the 70s and 80s when there was little else to cheer for sportswise in the state. For a longtime it was not very satisfying to be a Vol fan if you cared about winning on a consistent basis. Then in the 1990s it seemed like we were really building our way towards being another Fl. State, Nebraska, Penn State, Notre Dame, or Miami - type dynasty and just when we were finally right there at the doorstep it started to come unravelled. I know that all of those programs have had their ups and downs as well but all of them have been at the top of the mountain (more than once) and you can make a pretty strong argument that all of them will get there again before too long (I know Nebraska might be a stretch but you get the idea). I love the Vols and I want us to be thought of on the same level as those teams every year. Perennial BCS contenders. That should be the goal every year and we should have 5* recruits begging to come here every year, even after a down year. Maybe that is completely unrealistic but that is what I want for Big Orange football.

HB, I agree with you completely. We WERE on top of the mountain (in '98). We were one of the Bigdogs. Now, since then, we are slipping down the side of the mountain. All of us want to get back on top. We just differ on how. The "sheep" want to retool with CPF in charge. Us "bashers" feel that the best approach is to change generals like Ohio State did whe the fired John Cooper. Time will tell who is right.