Rebuilding What Bush Has Torn Down: Another Judge Does the Right Thing

[All Vol!]

Article

 

[MG1968]

don't rest on your laurels just yet. the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals consists of 12 judges, not just the three who made up this 2-1 decision. Yesterday afternoon, 8 1/2 hours before you posted your link, the Justice Department requested that the entire Court convene and make a ruling on the Marri case.

 

[All Vol!]

should I consider it a foregone conclusion that you disagree with the judge's ruling, 68?

 

[MG1968]

I disagree that this is a setback for the Bush administration, since the matter isn't really decided yet.

 

[All Vol!]

Do you feel that the power this administration has given itself to do things like detaining even American citizens (military commissions act of 2006) indefinitely without charging them with a crime...is constitutionally supported?

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

Well back in the day, if you were thought of to be an enemy of the state, you were hanged, shot, or beaten to death to prove a point to the enemy. So this guy sitting in jail doesn't bother me as much as the fact our justice system going down the tube before, during, and after this administration is long gone. Our government fails us as a whole, not just Bush. I mean come on if I can't say what I want to anymore without it being considered some kind of hate speech by my justice system then what good is the 1st Amendment??

 

[MG1968]

Do you feel that the power this administration has given itself to do things like detaining even American citizens (military commissions act of 2006) indefinitely without charging them with a crime...is constitutionally supported?

the person in question isn't an American citizen, he is a resident alien. and like Eric said, we used to shoot traitors/collaborators on sight.

 

[All Vol!]

the person in question isn't an American citizen, he is a resident alien. and like Eric said, we used to shoot traitors/collaborators on sight.

he is a legal U.S. resident, and indeed, the MCA of 2006 does allow such detainment for American citizens as well. Granted it has not been exrecised as yet, but the fact that I could be snatched up and locked away indefinitely as an "enemy combatant" for, as g8ter said, exrecsing a constitutionally guaranteed right..bothers the hell out of me. And besides, just knowing the right has been tampered with is plenty wrong whether it is ever put in practice or not. Ala Ben Franklin: "Those who would give up basic liberties to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." That's how passionate our founding fathers were about what would become constitutional liberties.

And as for "traitors/collaborators" being shot once upon a time in this country, we also used to buy and sell humans as personal property; the point is that we don't want to regress to a point where the rights of people are so trampled upon. With all due respect, it's crazy to suggest that such detainees should consider themselves fortunate because it used to be so much worse, like being shot. You know that's a flawed logic, 68.

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

he is a legal U.S. resident, and indeed, the MCA of 2006 does allow such detainment for American citizens as well. Granted it has not been exrecised as yet, but the fact that I could be snatched up and locked away indefinitely as an "enemy combatant" for, as g8ter said, exrecsing a constitutionally guaranteed right..bothers the hell out of me. And besides, just knowing the right has been tampered with is plenty wrong whether it is ever put in practice or not. Ala Ben Franklin: "Those who would give up basic liberties to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." That's how passionate our founding fathers were about what would become constitutional liberties.

And as for "traitors/collaborators" being shot once upon a time in this country, we also used to buy and sell humans as personal property; the point is that we don't want to regress to a point where the rights of people are so trampled upon. With all due respect, it's crazy to suggest that such detainees should consider themselves fortunate because it used to be so much worse, like being shot. You know that's a flawed logic, 68.

OK the argument that you could be snatched up is a null one. Ben Franklin also never dealt with people that just wanted to kill everyone who didn't believe in their religion either. He might not completely change he views if he were here now, but when you deal with around 380 million people and many more illegals to be added to that number you have to do something. I would say that there might have been around 2 million people in the colonies then and the diversification of those colonies were 99.9% white, which is a far cry from what it is now. We have shot ourselves in the foot as being the "Melting Pot" of the world. Also if Ben Franklin were alive today he would tell us to revolt against a tyrannic government he saw in power and to overthrow it.

 

[All Vol!]

OK the argument that you could be snatched up is a null one. Ben Franklin also never dealt with people that just wanted to kill everyone who didn't believe in their religion either. He might not completely change he views if he were here now, but when you deal with around 380 million people and many more illegals to be added to that number you have to do something. I would say that there might have been around 2 million people in the colonies then and the diversification of those colonies were 99.9% white, which is a far cry from what it is now. We have shot ourselves in the foot as being the "Melting Pot" of the world. Also if Ben Franklin were alive today he would tell us to revolt against a tyrannic government he saw in power and to overthrow it.

null? You can't know that for certain. The threat is real enough for those who understand "by the people, for the people." Also, what does the lack of diversification in colonial times have to do with this administration's trespasses upon the constitution? You're off on a tangent.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Funny, I'm all about 'by the people, for the people' and I don't feel the least bit threatened.

 

[volinbham]

Funny, I'm all about 'by the people, for the people' and I don't feel the least bit threatened.

I had this same discussion with a friend this weekend. He thought I was naive, I thought he was paranoid...

My view on this is non-partisan -- I don't see it as a big threat no matter what party is in power. I also have faith that if it is an abuse of the constitution that our system of checks and balances will correct the situation.

 

[MG1968]

it's not disputed that al Marri was/is a legal US resident alien. it's also not disputed that he is a member of al quaeda, or that his purpose in the US was to find ways to disrupt our financial system via cyber attacks.

According to facts that were undisputed for purpose of the appeal, al-Marri was closely associated with al-Qaeda and indeed trained with that organization at a terrorist camp. In 2001, he met with bin Laden and volunteered for "martyr duty." Bin Laden duly ordered him to the U.S. (where he had once been a student). He entered on September 10, 2001 for the purpose of operating as a "sleeper agent" to facilitate terrorist activity. His mission also involved figuring out how to disrupt our financial system through computer hacking and obtaining information about poisonous chemicals. His efforts were funded by a known terrorist financier and he communicated with known terrorists by phone and email.

Power Line: A living constitution or a suicide pact?

you can defend al-Marri all you want, call him a victim all you want, but he was in the US with the intent to do harm.