Recruiting as a Means to an End

#1
jlovevols

jlovevols

A Law Vol
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Jan 22, 2009
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#1
I love following recruiting, and this new staff certainly makes it exciting. But the comment by Kiffin after the UGA game bothered me: "I told [the team], to me, this is the biggest matchup, Georgia. Because of what we do recruiting, for this staff, this is the biggest matchup.”

Now, I dislike UGA as much as anybody, but that quote underlines what I believe is a potential flaw with this staff. It seems to me that recruiting is an end in itself and not just a means of improving the team. What I mean is, Kiffin celebrated the win over Georgia as a win in recruiting. Now, I know that putting a beatdown on UGA will benefit our recruiting efforts. But, I celebrated the win over Georgia for what it is, a huge win over a fierce SEC rival.

The potential problem that I see is making decisions about the current team not over what is best for the team, but what is best for our recruiting. Decisions over staff, playing time, etc. should be made based primarily on what would best improve the product on the field and not the recruiting trail.

I know how important recruiting is. It is the lifeblood of the program. I also know that this is a rebuilding year and that perhaps the staff is looking toward the future. But remember that with the exception of Monte Kiffin, this staff was largely known for its recruiting prowess and not for its coaching ability.

I know that this staff will win recruiting titles and they will be celebrated. But I am much more concerned about titles that are handed out in December and January, and not those in February.
 
#2
#2
He says this now because it is his first season...he won't say this in two years because by then we won't be looking at everyone's butt in recruiting wars. He wants HIS players in the program and has to win to accomplish that.
 
#3
#3
aaronvol said:
He says this now because it is his first season...he won't say this in two years because by then we won't be looking at everyone's butt in recruiting wars. He wants HIS players in the program and has to win to accomplish that.
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That's definitely what I'm hoping.
 
#4
#4
I understand where your coming from. Kiffin dosen't fully understand the hate that runs deep between our rivals. I was just glad to see him in orange on the sidelines. I'm certain he knows something that we don't know.
 
#5
#5
aaronvol said:
He says this now because it is his first season...he won't say this in two years because by then we won't be looking at everyone's butt in recruiting wars. He wants HIS players in the program and has to win to accomplish that.
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Agreed completely. It is the first season rebuilding the Vols back to where they need to be. It is all about recruiting and coaching obviously. So, lets get the best we can in here because it is obvious this staff can coach them up.
 
#6
#6
Look at USC...when Pete Carrol showed up there he absolutely had to pull off recruiting to win there but now that the program is rolling they basically sit back and let the prestige that surrounds playing for USC take care of the rest..........and a ton of cash they give out to real special players :)
 
#7
#7
I think part of it is he doesn't see beating Georgia as much of an accomplishment in the grand scheme of things. He sees it as a stepping stone to championships and things that really matter. He is thinking, planning and dreaming big. Some of us are still thinking small. We are excited because we might make a bowl this year. Could you imagine anyone even considering we wouldn't in the 90's? Same thing with beating Georgia.

It's a good sign that our coach has his eyes on the true prize, imo.
 
#8
#8
We can't really expect him to be emotionally attached to UT football this early. Right now its a project for him more than anything. Give him a couple years , he'll have a breakout game that will make him feel the pride and uncontrolled smile about it.
 
#9
#9
IPorange said:
I think part of it is he doesn't see beating Georgia as much of an accomplishment in the grand scheme of things. He sees it as a stepping stone to championships and things that really matter. He is thinking, planning and dreaming big. Some of us are still thinking small. We are excited because we might make a bowl this year. Could you imagine anyone even considering we wouldn't in the 90's? Same thing with beating Georgia.

It's a good sign that our coach has his eyes on the true prize, imo.
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That's a good point. I'm totally fine with thinking of it as a stepping stone to championships.
 
#10
#10
Everything in the first few years will ultimately effect recruiting and Kiffin understands how important it is to get his players here. I agree that he doesn't fully understand the rivalries throughout the SEC. He just knows what the national media has told him before he got here. To me, this is kinda a good thing. Fulmer knew all too well and it caused him to be extremely nervous in big games and against our big rivals and that translated to tight play on the field.
 
#11
#11
Everyone has brought up a good point and Kiffin is the first to admit that he doesn't understand the true rivalry YET! Give him time and he'll foam at the mouth like we do when we're ready to play our rivals. But recruiting comes first to put the product on the field that will be able to beat these guys week after week, year after year. GO VOLS!!!!:rock:
 
#12
#12
I'm not a recruiting expert, so take this for what it's worth, just the musings of a fan. There are a lot of good athletes coming out of GA, and our main competition for them is UGA. they are close to home and we have a good shot at getting them. If we can keep beating the Bulldogs like a red headed step child then that could be our talent base for the future. FL has a lot of talent as well, but there we have three huge (FSU,UF,UM) programs to compete with. I agree about the titles in Dec & Jan being more important than those in Feb, but I am hoping that CLK's thought process is that you have to win the first (recruiting) before you can win the second (championships).
:thumbsup:
 
#13
#13
He also needs to make the East a two horse race again with Tennessee and Florida.
 
#14
#14
81Bubbavol said:
I'm not a recruiting expert, so take this for what it's worth, just the musings of a fan. There are a lot of good athletes coming out of GA, and our main competition for them is UGA.
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After the beatdown the dawgs are gonna get from the bees, we might have to be worried about Ga tech as recruiting competition..
 
#15
#15
I think what Kiffin did was genious. Fulmer never mentioned recruiting during the season b/c he didn't have to. Bama, UGA, So Car, etc. were all down during his early to mid tenure and pulling players from those teams was much easier. We lost at least four players (Brown, Charles, Geathers, Long) to UGA last year and he is planting the seed of doubt for those players who are considering both UT and UGA.
 
#16
#16
SpaceCoastVol said:
After the beatdown the dawgs are gonna get from the bees, we might have to be worried about Ga tech as recruiting competition..
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Good point. :good!: I almost included them - at least it's two schools and not three ! I guess we can hope that the guys that are pro style QB's & WR's would pick Kiffin's offense over Johnson's. RB's might be a little more competitive, though.

I know I would hate to play those guys on a regular basis. Remember what Air Force did to us? Lost Inky & a DT and almost lost the game.
 
#17
#17
I see what the OP is saying but then I put myself in the place of one of the current players. Would I feel cheated by the efforts or coaching of this staff? Nope. In fact, several like Hardesty will either be drafted or drafted higher because of the change.

Moreover, he's openly saying what some would be whispering anyway... they aren't surprised. By doing it like he's doing it, he's giving the guys who won't be at UT when UT wins its next championship a stake in the program's future. He's given them something much larger to play for.... That is a completely positive thing. If UT's players hoist the SEC trophy in two years... guys like Cody and Cory, Wes Brown, and Hancock can be proud of their role in laying the foundation.

There is absolutely nothing negative you have to take from that comment.
 
#18
#18
81Bubbavol said:
I'm not a recruiting expert, so take this for what it's worth, just the musings of a fan. There are a lot of good athletes coming out of GA, and our main competition for them is UGA. they are close to home and we have a good shot at getting them. If we can keep beating the Bulldogs like a red headed step child then that could be our talent base for the future. FL has a lot of talent as well, but there we have three huge (FSU,UF,UM) programs to compete with. I agree about the titles in Dec & Jan being more important than those in Feb, but I am hoping that CLK's thought process is that you have to win the first (recruiting) before you can win the second (championships).
:thumbsup:
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Good points. I said when CLK was hired that they needed to own Atlanta and N Georgia. Atlanta isn't like the rest of Ga. It is a "cosmopolitan" city without the attachment to UGA that other areas and cities in GA have.

Also the best talent in Tennessee is Nashville and west with the greatest concentration around Memphis. That's what, a six maybe 8 hour drive? Atlanta is less than 4 as are Charlotte and all of the Upstate of SC. Winston-Salem/Greensboro isn't much if any further.

My point is there is probably more talent in those areas than the Memphis area and just as much willingness to play at UT.
 
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#20
#20
Recruiting is the life blood of any program. To get where we want to get, we first have to recruit the best athletes to come here. He knows that once we get them here, our outstanding coaching staff will put them in the best possible position to excel in college and get to the next level. One step at a time. Everything will roll once we establish a good base of outstanding players. As much as I hate to say it, remember when Urban Meyer first got to UF...all he spoke about was recruiting and bringing in the right players for him. It's worked for him. Now I just feel gross, but you get my point.
 
#21
#21
Whoever said recruiting and winnining were mutually exclusive? It just seemed that way under Fulmer.
 
#22
#22
This was a good post. Thanks for starting the discussion.

I think that Kiffin is pointing out the obvious and that is that UGA has to slip to a consistent third for TN to challenge Florida.

If Richt maintains the level of success he has had in the last 8-9 years, Kiffin can never build what he wants to build. He tried to take Garner, but Rodney was unwilling to be one of lots of great recruiters.

If Kiffin beats UGA badly next year, he will start to have a talent disparity to his advantage, plus better coaching.

He should pray that Willie Martinez is not replaced by someone competent. Richt is still a great recruiter and a great offensive coach, and Willie M being a complete idiot helped us a ton this year as his LBs froze on play action the WHOLE game.
 
#23
#23
Kiffins here to win multiple NC's..1 win wont get it done this year. but mutliple wins mean we set ourselves up to get the talent neccessary to do so
 
#24
#24
Well said SJT. I guess in a way, the current players can be the foundation for the future, but at the same time benefit themselves. Hardesty is a great example there.
 
#25
#25
GoVols said:
Recruiting is the life blood of any program. To get where we want to get, we first have to recruit the best athletes to come here. He knows that once we get them here, our outstanding coaching staff will put them in the best possible position to excel in college and get to the next level. One step at a time. Everything will roll once we establish a good base of outstanding players. As much as I hate to say it, remember when Urban Meyer first got to UF...all he spoke about was recruiting and bringing in the right players for him. It's worked for him. Now I just feel gross, but you get my point.
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I agree with you there. Bringing in a great recruiting class is a step in bringing home championships. I just don't ever want to see Kiffin raise an SEC trophy, and say "boy, this will be great for recruiting." I am grossly exaggerating, but my point is that when we get there, I hope the focus is on winning games. I want to hear about the coaches jumping up and down with the players after beating LSU/Bama in Atlanta more than they do when a junior in high school gives a verbal pledge to play for UT 2 years down the road.

And I mean no disrespect to A.J. Johnson, or any other 2011 commit. I hear he is a heck of a player. I was just using that as an example.
 
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