Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXVI

[chavisut]

I know a lot of you guys like Mullen, I just don't see it. He's not done much outside of Prescott. It would be a disastrous hire.

He's at friggin Miss State. They were below .500 ALL TIME before he took over. It is literally the next step up from Vandy/UK and in the much tougher division. It's not even the second best program in the state.

 

[SSVol]

Hes 3-15 as an underdog and 14-19 in conference play. Thats meh SS.

I'm not arguing that. Your response was to a post regarding him being average ATS. He should be.

 

[Enki_Amenra]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz3jwj_NC3U[/youtube]

 

[Kristy*]

Florida ran a total of 57 plays.

Yea we did and it seems we didn't even rotate Phillips in that much.

Abernathy played EVERY snap also. A more physically and mentally fresh Abernathy on the last play may have made a difference.

I'm over the no depth in year 5. Injuries happen, but other players have to step up. If they don't earn coaches' trust in practice, help them. Help them learn to practice. Coach them up. Build the depth. Don't wait until the depth builds itself.

If our starters played less, there were be fewer injuries as well. Besides the extending playing time, tired players are more likely to get injured.

 

[Smokey123]

Going back and watching some more of the game. Dormady throws it nice when he steps into his throws, the problem is he only does that a few times a game.
That INT on the goal line from Duke Dawson, not sure whose fault it was. Either Palmer ran the wrong route or Dormady didn't know the route he was running. But even if he ran a quick slant it would have been a yard behind palmer.

Tennessee's down field blocking is great.

I love the call where we faked a screen to the RB and have callaway hiding behind the Olinemen and then run a drag, He came sooooo close to scoring that. I hope we see that play more going forward

 

[Atzar]

I expected 8-4 prior to this season, and said that I'd be more or less okay with Butch if that's what happened. That hasn't changed. The loss hurt at the time and I'm still not happy about it, but I took a drive after the game and came back with a clear head. It didn't stick with me very long. I've moved on to UMass.

I've never been one to heap a lot of credit or blame on the coach, regardless of the sport. You do have the rare few, the Sabans and Belichicks, who impact a game in a positive way. You also have the Dooleys who impact a game in a negative way. I think it's reasonable to say that Butch is not in the former group; I also think he's earned enough respect to not count him in the latter group.

Every game has many instances where the players - not the coaches - are responsible for altering the game. What if Dormady doesn't throw a stupid interception when we were driving on the first possession of the game? What if Kelly doesn't get an unsportsmanlike penalty after his TD, resulting in a returnable kickoff and a short field that gave Florida one of only two offensive TDs on the day? What if Palmer or Kelly catch well-placed balls in the red zone that both would have resulted in TDs? What if Palmer runs the correct route on the play where Dormady threw an interception in the endzone? What if Callaway catches the fourth-quarter pick or knocks it down, rather than tipping it up for a free pick-six - or what if Dormady just throws a better pass? What if Abernathy takes the correct pursuit angle on the game-winning hurl? These are all player errors that contributed directly to the final score. Once the ball is snapped, only 22 people matter... and none of them are on the sidelines.

My intent isn't to exonerate Butch. He'll answer for the loss. But IMO unless the wheels just fall completely off the bus, it makes far more sense to have these conversations at the end of the year rather than after the third game, no matter how emotional everybody is right now. In the meantime, it's not just on the coaches to 'salvage' the season... these players have to make more of these plays too.

 

[VolGee4]

He's at friggin Miss State. They were below .500 ALL TIME before he took over. It is literally the next step up from Vandy/UK and in the much tougher division. It's not even the second best program in the state.

Huh? Seriously?

He's done well for them, but he has also feasted on some bad OOC schedules. I laid it out a few weeks ago. He doesn't have many years where he was above .500 in conference. He is great at developing QB's though.

 

[The Breakerboy]

In his press conference Butch just said they had a run play called on first down and dormady checked to the pass and the plan on second down was to sneak it but he didnt want JG going in and taking the snap from under center

Interesting....

 

[AAVFL]

He's at friggin Miss State. They were below .500 ALL TIME before he took over. It is literally the next step up from Vandy/UK and in the much tougher division. It's not even the second best program in the state.

Still hasn't beaten bama or won a championship of any kind. Don't use the excuse of well it's the west. Auburn has won, LSU has won, even ole Miss has beaten bama. To me he seems butch 2.0 he has upgraded the team and made them competitive but hasn't won when it counts.

 

[Smokey123]

Abernathy played EVERY snap also. A more physically and mentally fresh Abernathy on the last play may have made a difference.

I'm over the no depth in year 5. Injuries happen, but other players have to step up. If they don't earn coaches' trust in practice, help them. Help them learn to practice. Coach them up. Build the depth. Don't wait until the depth builds itself.

If our starters played less, there were be fewer injuries as well. Besides the extending playing time, tired players are more likely to get injured.

Imo the problem isn't even the depth, it's that we refuse to play the other guys. Is it because they forget? Is it because lack of trust? Who knows, but I agree it's ridiculous.
I don't think it would have made a difference tho, he was just too out position to make a play(because of play call). Cleveland has elite speed and isn't someone ur gonna catch from behind like that. We need to teach our DB's if you're getting burnt like just grab on to him, dive at him, do something. Abernathy would have saved that TD if he did that. Take the penalty.

I watched the Clemson vs UL game today. Clemson rotates SOOOO much on defense and even the Oline(Oline more due to poor play though) and doesn't lose a step. I wanna see us do that.

 

[Outofmyvolcanmind]

He developed Dak, Tebow, and Alex Smith. Got MSU to #1.

How quickly people forget.

 

[VolGee4]

Still hasn't beaten bama or won a championship of any kind. Don't use the excuse of well it's the west. Auburn has won, LSU has won, even ole Miss has beaten bama. To me he seems butch 2.0 he has upgraded the team and made them competitive but hasn't won when it counts.

I was with an MSU fan Saturday night. He was obviously thrilled. But he said they have had OL problems for years, and the OL coach is Mullen's good friend and has been there since he started. He refuses to make a change.

 

[chavisut]

Huh? Seriously?

He's done well for them, but he has also feasted on some bad OOC schedules. I laid it out a few weeks ago. He doesn't have many years where he was above .500 in conference. He is great at developing QB's though.

Absolutely serious. I know the schedule. I also know the program he's at.

He's great at coaching football.

 

[Smokey123]

Mullen would win 9-10 games here every year. Sometimes 11 with an easy west team. But I don't think he would be a championship coach.

 

[BruinVol]

IMO this is the order of plays that if different changed the outcome.

My challenge is how many of these lay the blame on coaching

1) kelly dropping a below average pass that would have been an easy walk in go ahead TD

2) QD checking to a pass on the 1 yard line

3) 3 missed FGs

4) 3 INTs

5) kelleys unsportsmanlike penalty

6) taking a sack in the red zone

7) palmers dropped TD

8) Abernathy poor angle



That's 12 single plays that if went our way we win the game. Are those on coaching?

Imo only a few are coaching

 

[Kristy*]

Imo the problem isn't even the depth, it's that we refuse to play the other guys. Is it because they forget? Is it because lack of trust? Who knows, but I agree it's ridiculous.
I don't think it would have made a difference tho, he was just too out position to make a play(because of play call). Cleveland has elite speed and isn't someone ur gonna catch from behind like that. We need to teach our DB's if you're getting burnt like just grab on to him, dive at him, do something. Abernathy would have saved that TD if he did that. Take the penalty.

I watched the Clemson vs UL game today. Clemson rotates SOOOO much on defense and even the Oline(Oline more due to poor play though) and doesn't lose a step. I wanna see us do that.

I agree with all of this. Jones has said it's because the players haven't earned the trust of their coaches. But that's not always on the players. We hear about all these players showing out, getting praise from the coaches in fall camp. Get them a lot of reps in the easy games. Get them a few in the bigger games. They will become better players and more trustworthy because of it. As it is, when injuries happen, they won't be ready. Then we'll have a repeat of last year down the stretch.

 

[chavisut]

Mississippi State's last(only) conference title was 1941.




1941

 

[AAVFL]

Absolutely serious. I know the schedule. I also know the program he's at.

He's great at coaching football.

So your going to trade a coach with a overall win pctg of .604 for one that has one with .604? Give me someone that's got a history of winning and recruiting mad dog.

 

[kw3953]

IMO this is the order of plays that if different changed the outcome.

My challenge is how many of these lay the blame on coaching

1) kelly dropping a below average pass that would have been an easy walk in go ahead TD

2) QD checking to a pass on the 1 yard line

3) 3 missed FGs

4) 3 INTs

5) kelleys unsportsmanlike penalty

6) taking a sack in the red zone

7) paers dropped TD

8) Abernathy poor angle



That's 12 single plays that if went out way we win the game. Are those on coaching?

Imo only a few are coaching

The trash can coach wasn't as dialed in with the turnovers as he was during the GT game.

 

[Smokey123]

IMO this is the order of plays that if different changed the outcome.

My challenge is how many of these lay the blame on coaching

1) kelly dropping a below average pass that would have been an easy walk in go ahead TD

2) QD checking to a pass on the 1 yard line

3) 3 missed FGs

4) 3 INTs

5) kelleys unsportsmanlike penalty

6) taking a sack in the red zone

7) paers dropped TD

8) Abernathy poor angle



That's 12 single plays that if went out way we win the game. Are those on coaching?

Imo only a few are coaching

Abernathy is coaching, poor play call.
Not running inside the 10 with 1 minute left was terrible. Taking a sack was Coaching, it was 3rd and short and we do play action, (If that's the play ur talking about). I would add running 7 plays inside the 10 and not running once, in there too.

Our RB's averaged 6.3 YPC, run the dang ball inside the 10

 

[InVOLuntary]

Abernathy played EVERY snap also. A more physically and mentally fresh Abernathy on the last play may have made a difference.

I'm over the no depth in year 5. Injuries happen, but other players have to step up. If they don't earn coaches' trust in practice, help them. Help them learn to practice. Coach them up. Build the depth. Don't wait until the depth builds itself.

If our starters played less, there were be fewer injuries as well. Besides the extending playing time, tired players are more likely to get injured.

As usual, all excellent points.

 

[Kristy*]

IMO this is the order of plays that if different changed the outcome.

My challenge is how many of these lay the blame on coaching

1) kelly dropping a below average pass that would have been an easy walk in go ahead TD

2) QD checking to a pass on the 1 yard line

3) 3 missed FGs

4) 3 INTs

5) kelleys unsportsmanlike penalty

6) taking a sack in the red zone

7) paers dropped TD

8) Abernathy poor angle



That's 12 single plays that if went out way we win the game. Are those on coaching?

Imo only a few are coaching

The problem is, despite all of that, we would have won with better coaching. If the coaching were good, and we just lost the game because of execution, there wouldn't be this much turmoil. The inexperience on their first true road game showed. Mistakes were expected. The players aren't the ones earning the paycheck however.

 

[jordan4vols]

From JAV on JG

"Q played a bad game Saturday. He owns that as well. I'm telling you right now unequivocally that JG isn't ready at all to be the starter here. He's confident and cocky but he doesn't have the trust of his teammates. He couldn't even get the right snap count on a QB sneak. Doesn't mean he won't have it ever and doesn't diminish his ability which is very big. QD has to play alot better than he did the majority of that game in order to be a balanced offense going forward. The receivers are the group that week have the single most impact on Q being a better QB. They are not good right now and that's being kind. Can't have the kinds of breakdowns they had Saturday and play winning football."

 

[Smokey123]

The problem is, despite all of that, we would have won with better coaching. If the coaching were good, and we just lost the game because of execution, there wouldn't be this much turmoil. The inexperience on their first true road game showed. Mistakes were expected. The players aren't the ones earning the paycheck however.

This. With just average coaching we win rather easily.

 

[AAVFL]

From JAV on JG

"Q played a bad game Saturday. He owns that as well. I'm telling you right now unequivocally that JG isn't ready at all to be the starter here. He's confident and cocky but he doesn't have the trust of his teammates. He couldn't even get the right snap count on a QB sneak. Doesn't mean he won't have it ever and doesn't diminish his ability which is very big. QD has to play alot better than he did the majority of that game in order to be a balanced offense going forward. The receivers are the group that week have the single most impact on Q being a better QB. They are not good right now and that's being kind. Can't have the kinds of breakdowns they had Saturday and play winning football."

Woah