Resisting arrest

#1

RespectTradition

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#1
Pro Libertate


excerpt
Anne Dekins was a loud-mouthed party girl -- or at least, that's what the arrest warrant suggested. Whatever she may have done in the past, Miss Dekins was quietly minding her own business when Officer Samuel Bray found her on the street and began to haul her away.

Dekins wasn’t inclined to go quietly, and she put up a struggle. Her cries for help attracted the interest of several armed men led by an individual named Tooley, who confronted Bray and demanded to know what he was doing to the frantic woman. The officer produced his official credentials and insisted that he was making a lawful arrest for “disorderly conduct.” When witnesses disputed that description, Bray called for backup.

Tooley and his associates ordered Bray to release the woman, and then took action to enforce that lawful order. After Bray’s partner was killed in the ensuing struggle, Tooley and his associates were arrested for murder. The trial court threw out the murder charge, ruling that the warrant was defective. Since the arrest was illegal, the court pointed out, Dekins had a right to resist – and bystanders likewise had a right, if not a positive duty, to assist her. The defendants were eventually found guilty of manslaughter, but quickly pardoned and set free.

By trying to enforce an invalid warrant, Bray “did not act as a constable, but a common oppressor,” observed the trial court. Tooley and the other bystanders were properly “provoked” by the act of aggressive violence against Anne Dekins, and their forceful but measured response – first demanding that the abductor release the hostage, then exercising defensive force to free her – was entirely appropriate.

Lawless violence against the helpless “is a sufficient provocation to all people out of compassion” in any circumstance, observed the court, “much more where it is done under a colour of justice, and where the liberty of the subject is invaded….” In fact, an act of that kind carried out by a law enforcement official is nothing less than “a provocation to all the subjects of England.”

Every Englishman “ought to be concerned for Magna Charta and the laws,” concluded the Queen’s Bench in the 1710 case Queen v. Tooley. “And if any one against the law imprison a man, he is an offender against Magna Charta.”
...

In early 18th Century England, this was seen as a non-negotiable bulwark against what the heroic Algernon Sidney called “the violence of a wicked magistrate who, hav[ing] armed a crew of lewd villains,” would otherwise inflict his will on innocent and helpless people with impunity. Sidney’s martyrdom at the hands of precisely that kind of degenerate, tyrannical magistrate underscored the vitality of the principle he expressed.

“The right to resist unlawful arrest memorializes one of the principal elements in the heritage of the English revolution: the belief that the will to resist arbitrary authority in a reasonable way is valuable and ought not to be suppressed by the criminal law,” observed Paul Chevigny in a 1969 Yale Law Journal essay. Actually, Chevigny – like many others – elides a critical distinction between “power” and “authority”: While a police officer may have the power to abduct or abuse an innocent person, citizens have the authority to prevent that crime.

Until the late 1960s, most states recognized – albeit grudgingly -- the Common Law right to resist arrest. By 1969, that right had been transmuted, through judicial activism, into a revocable “privilege” – one that had to be dispensed with to serve the interests of the State's punitive caste.
...
Prominently citing the Miller decision in Alaska, the Idaho Court observed that “More than one state has, without legislative action, modified the traditional common law rule and has adopted the rule that a private citizen may not use force to resist a peaceful arrest,” blithely ignoring, once again, the fact that a “peaceful arrest” is a creature more fanciful than a left-handed unicorn that speaks Norwegian. “We are of the opinion that the trend is, and should be, away from the traditional common law rule, and therefore we hold that if a person has reasonable ground to believe he is being arrested by a peace officer, it is his duty to refrain from using force or any weapon in resisting arrest regardless of whether or not there is a legal basis for the arrest.”
...
Buehler, 34, is a combat veteran of Kosovo and Iraq, West Point graduate, and middle school teacher. He was serving as a designated driver on the morning of New Year’s Day when he saw a woman being abused by police outside a 7-11. The costumed assailants, officers Pat Oborski and Robert Snider, were conducting what they called a DWI arrest of a woman later identified as Norma Pizana.


To Buehler and his friends, the spectacle looked more like a gang assault.


"We hear a loud scream, and we look over, and we see the cop violently yanking the female out of the car onto the ground," Buehler told local ABC affiliate KVUE. "She is screaming. The other cop ran up and they both sort of grabbed her arms. Her hands were behind her back straight out and they lifted her up by her arms. It looked extremely painful."


With the help of a friend, Buehler began to document this act of "street justice" with his cell phone. That prompted Oborski to confront Buehler, who was not interfering in any way.
According to Buehler, Oborski barked, "What the hell are you taking pictures for?"
"My response was, `I am allowed to. Public official in a public place.'"

As he was trained to, Oborski started to lie in an effort to devise a cover charge against Buehler. First he claimed that Buehler was somehow "interfering with the investigation," which was patently untrue. Then the cop assaulted Buhler by pushing the unresisting man — who would have been more than a match for the donut-grazer, had he chosen to fight back — up against a truck.


"Once he had me pinned up against the back of the truck he kept leaning in," Buehler continued. "He kept pushing me."


Eventually Oborski got so close that Buehler actually breathed on him — which gave him a pretext to accuse the witness of "spitting" on him. With some difficulty, and Snider’s help, Oborski wrestled Buehler (who offered only passive resistance) to the ground and handcuffed him. The cops took Beuhler to a BAT van—- a patently unreliable mobile alcohol testing unit — in the hope of documenting that the witness was intoxicated, which he wasn't. The cop finally settled on charging him with "harassing a public servant" — a third-degree felony — and "resisting arrest."

As is always the case in incidents of this kind, Buehler wasn’t arrested for an actual crime; he was vindictively punished for “contempt of cop.”


“You don’t f*** with cops,” Oborski snarled at Buehler. “You don’t get in our f***ing way. You don’t question us, and we’re going to teach you a lesson.”


Norma Pizana’s plight was strikingly similar to that of Anne Dekins, with at least one critical difference: Dekins and her rescuers were blessed to live in 18th Century England, a relatively civilized society that recognized and protected a free individual’s indispensable right to resist State-licensed criminal violence.


What do ya'll think? Of you have done nothing wrong, should you be forced to cooperate with your oppressor? Should you go along peacefully to prevent trouble and rely on a court to give you justice for whatever mistreatment you may receive at the hands of govt officials or prisoners you may be kenneled with?
 
#2
#2
True story:

In Chattanooga on 23rd St. there's a Krystal's that used to have policemen playing late night security there about 20 years ago. One particular night, I go in there and I'm greeted with a long line of customers and 2 of Chattanooga's Finest barking at the crowd. I'm usually not the first one to scream F Tha Police, especially near East Lake Courts around midnight. But this was a different scene. These guys were eyeballing the people in line and rolling eyes, barking orders to the crowd to be quiet or stop talking. In my mind, the crowd seemed to be actually orderly and well behaved, which I thought was amazing, making all of the bluster and bravado by these 2 guys even more out of place. Well of course, you know one person in the crowd was going to test the situation (you know how they do it in the hood). This one cop jumped and reached for the girl that spouted off to him and he patted his side arm a few times with his hand as he was warning her. No reason at all to even play the gun card at all. They go back and forth for a few moments and with the help of the other cop, these guys throw her and her group of friends out the Krystal (by force). Dragging, pushing and shoving... The rest of the crowd was mumbling and carrying on, but it didn't get anywhere near as tense as I thought it was for a few moments. I really thought for a minute that there was going to be a full on riot right there in the lobby or front door if somebody in that crowd wanted to jump bad and stir some s**t up. But nothing happened...:unsure:
 
#3
#3
Pro Libertate


excerpt



What do ya'll think? Of you have done nothing wrong, should you be forced to cooperate with your oppressor? Should you go along peacefully to prevent trouble and rely on a court to give you justice for whatever mistreatment you may receive at the hands of govt officials or prisoners you may be kenneled with?

There is so much wrong with all that. I will address one part. The officer didn't write the warrant therefore if he was acting in "good faith" that the warrant was legal, his arrest was not invalid. He was simply doing his duty and his partner was killed for it.
 
#4
#4
There is so much wrong with all that. I will address one part. The officer didn't write the warrant therefore if he was acting in "good faith" that the warrant was legal, his arrest was not invalid. He was simply doing his duty and his partner was killed for it.

If the party he is arresting has not committed a crime, the arrest is certainly invalid.

Also, the court ruled in Queen v. Tooley that the "constable knew or should have known this his actions were illegal"; therefore, the "acting in 'good faith'' argument is invalid.
 
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#5
#5
If the party he is arresting has not committed a crime, the arrest is certainly invalid.

Also, the court ruled in Queen v. Tooley that the "constable knew or should have known this his actions were illegal"; therefore, the "acting in 'good faith'' argument is invalid.

Qualified immunity. The way the text is written above, the warrant had already been issued and since it was written and signed by a judge or magistrate, the arrest was legal. Hunter v. Bryant.

I can quote just as many cases as you can.
 
#6
#6
Qualified immunity. The way the text is written above, the warrant had already been issued and since it was written and signed by a judge or magistrate, the arrest was legal. Hunter v. Bryant.

I can quote just as many cases as you can.

This happened in the 18th Century in the UK. SCOTUS opinions do not apply.
 
#7
#7
I only resist arrest when I'm guilty as sin, and won't be getting out for a very long time.
 
#8
#8
There is so much wrong with all that. I will address one part. The officer didn't write the warrant therefore if he was acting in "good faith" that the warrant was legal, his arrest was not invalid. He was simply doing his duty and his partner was killed for it.

You're a cop, am I right?
 
#9
#9
In my work, I have a lot of experience with this kind of situation (the technically wrong warrant issue).

I believe that in most jurusdictions you cannot resist an officer WITH VIOLENCE even if it later turns out that the arrest was for some reason invalid.
 
#10
#10
In my work, I have a lot of experience with this kind of situation (the technically wrong warrant issue).

I believe that in most jurusdictions you cannot resist an officer WITH VIOLENCE even if it later turns out that the arrest was for some reason invalid.

You are correct as far as I know. Do you agree with that state of affairs?
 
#11
#11
You are correct as far as I know. Do you agree with that state of affairs?

Yes because a person falsely arrested has a remedy at law. He can sue.

Balanced against the good faith efforts of the officer, it is better to deal with a mistaken warrant that way than with violence.
 
#12
#12
Yes because a person falsely arrested has a remedy at law. He can sue.

Balanced against the good faith efforts of the officer, it is better to deal with a mistaken warrant that way than with violence.

Does qualified immunity for the police and absolute immunity for DAs limit this to some degree?

If you are arrested, put into some form of cell and another guest violates you, will a lawsuit fix that?

If you miss some significant, once in a lifetime event or moment that you can never have back because another 'lawgator' that had an outstanding warrant is still out there and you get pulled over and arrested by mistake, will money make that better for you?

Mind you, I am not advocating violence. I am merely asking questions.

Also, why is it resisting arrest when all you do is refuse to cooperate with your arrest?
 
#13
#13
1. The 'state' should not bring charges against anyone.

2. When a potential victim (or an advocate of a potential victim) brings charges to LE an investigation should ensue. Once said investigation is complete, a Grand Jury should be arraigned in order to produce an arrest warrant. Only then should another citizen be arrested.
 
#14
#14
1. The 'state' should not bring charges against anyone.

2. When a potential victim (or an advocate of a potential victim) brings charges to LE an investigation should ensue. Once said investigation is complete, a Grand Jury should be arraigned in order to produce an arrest warrant. Only then should another citizen be arrested.

:hi:
 
#15
#15
1. The 'state' should not bring charges against anyone.

2. When a potential victim (or an advocate of a potential victim) brings charges to LE an investigation should ensue. Once said investigation is complete, a Grand Jury should be arraigned in order to produce an arrest warrant. Only then should another citizen be arrested.

In a perfect world, I would agree.
 
#16
#16
Does qualified immunity for the police and absolute immunity for DAs limit this to some degree?

Qualified immunity, in the circuit in which I practice (Florida, Georgia, and Alabama) would be a strong defense here because, under that doctrine, the officer would need only "arguable" probable cause to arrest and the law otherwise pretty much is that a facially valid warrant is due to be executed,with no discretion. Thus, the real remedy is against whoever got the warrant wrong, and each state has different laws on liability for that.

If you are arrested, put into some form of cell and another guest violates you, will a lawsuit fix that?

Such an eventuality would be a part of the plaintiff's damages, if the arrest was false, yes. Also, the plaintiff might have a separate action against the jail entity, depending on the facts of how the assault occurred. That gets very complicated.

If you miss some significant, once in a lifetime event or moment that you can never have back because another 'lawgator' that had an outstanding warrant is still out there and you get pulled over and arrested by mistake, will money make that better for you?

If the warrant is facially valid, the arresting officer and agency is pretty much not going to be held liable unless there is some extreme circumstance. The question will be why is the warrant wrong. And how quickly and reasonably does the person detaining you figure that out. I defend such lawsuits all the time. Win some, lose some.




Mind you, I am not advocating violence. I am merely asking questions.

Also, why is it resisting arrest when all you do is refuse to cooperate with your arrest?

In Florida, there are two kinds. Resisting with violence, and resisting without violence. If you are passive, you can be charged with the latter and that can occur if you simply interfere with an officer discharging a lawful duty.

You don't want to get charged with resisting with. Generally speaking the prosecutors take those cases pretty seriously. But each case depends on the facts, of course.


See above. Sorry to take so long, was on the road a lot the last few days.

Bear in mind re all of the above, I am not your lawyer. I practice only in Florida and each jurisdiction is different. If you think you have been done wrong, trust me, there are plenty of attorneys out there willing to speak to you and you should not hesitate to call one, especially because there are statute of limitations issues in these cases.
 
#17
#17
See above. Sorry to take so long, was on the road a lot the last few days.

Bear in mind re all of the above, I am not your lawyer. I practice only in Florida and each jurisdiction is different. If you think you have been done wrong, trust me, there are plenty of attorneys out there willing to speak to you and you should not hesitate to call one, especially because there are statute of limitations issues in these cases.

I have no need of a lawyer. As yet.

I think you misunderstood my questions.

I am not asking you how things work. I am well aware. I am asking you if you think that this state of affairs is right and proper? A lawsuit can get you money, but can it make things right? I take my right to be free from kidnapping, be it legal or not, as more important to me than money. Do you?
 
#18
#18
I have no need of a lawyer. As yet.

I think you misunderstood my questions.

I am not asking you how things work. I am well aware. I am asking you if you think that this state of affairs is right and proper? A lawsuit can get you money, but can it make things right? I take my right to be free from kidnapping, be it legal or not, as more important to me than money. Do you?


Ah, I see.

The civil tort system uses money to compensate the uncompensatable all the time. A loved one's life, a limb, freedom.

It's not perfect. But it's literally the only currency we mutually adhere to as a means to right a wrong.

And so, yes, I'd much rather a person arrested in error then sue when the system corrects the mistake rather than have they, or a sympathetic crowd, use violence because at the moment they think the arrest is in error.
 

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