RIP brothers wtf?

#2
#2
I am ambivalent about this.

On the one hand, I am not sentimental about dead bodies. As far as I am concerned, they are not people. They are just kinda like the husks some bugs shed and leave on the side of the tree.

On the other hand, this is disrespectful towards the families since most people do not share my rational view of it.

On the third hand, these people just kinda shrugged off responsibility for the disposal of their loved ones remains to strangers and never cared enough to find out how the disposal occurred.

I don't feel sorry for the fallen, since they have moved on leaving the dross behind.

I don't feel sorry for the family members responsible for abdicating their responsibilities.

I do feel sorry for any family members who are hurt by this who had no say in the matter.
 
#3
#3
I am a USAF veteran.

I think some heads should roll over this.

I can't imagine that many families not wanting the remains of their loved ones sent home or not even following up and finding out where the remains would be interred.
 
#4
#4
The travesty is that persons are dying in these wars. That their remains are not "properly" disposed of is a non-issue.
 
#5
#5
We go to great lengths and spend millions of dollars to recover and identify the remains of those who fell in Viet Nam, Korea, Pacific Islands, yet we can't spend a few bucks to identify these remains before we toss them in the landfill?
Now, if the families feel they gained what they needed and signed a document that said the AF could do whatever they wanted to do with the remains, then they have no room to complain. But, couldn't the folks and Dover figured out something better to do with the ashes? How different would this story be if they decided to routinely spread the ashes in another military cemetery or a National Park or spread them from an airplane flying over the country? Sure, they might be fielding some complaints from environmental groups or a public health official but at least they could say they tried to do something more honorable than tossing them in the landfill.

Story A: "Well, we had no policy or guidance so we followed public health law and secretly disposed of the remains in the local landfill."

Story B: "Well, we had no policy or guidance so we decided to do one last thing to honor their service so we would take the ashes to Arlington and spread them over the grounds there."
 
#6
#6
therealUT said:
The travesty is that persons are dying in these wars. That their remains are not "properly" disposed of is a non-issue.
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I 100% agree with you on the first part and 100% disagree with you on the second part, it does matter and is an issue.
 
#7
#7
BearCat204 said:
I 100% agree with you on the first part and 100% disagree with you on the second part, it does matter and is an issue.
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The body, sans soul, is garbage. Some persons choose to bury that garbage and top it with a monument; some persons choose to burn it and spread it somewhere special. That does not change the fact that garbage is garbage.
 
#11
#11
VolsNSkinsFan said:
You ever been to a funeral? If so why did you go?
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I have never thought of a funeral as paying respect to lifeless remains; funerals would be better off without the leftover body. One can remember that actual person without requiring the presence of the material vessel that encased their soul; well, at least I can. If you cannot, then you are admitting a lack of capacity for abstract thought.
 
#13
#13
therealUT said:
The body, sans soul, is garbage. Some persons choose to bury that garbage and top it with a monument; some persons choose to burn it and spread it somewhere special. That does not change the fact that garbage is garbage.
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We look at this very differently so there really isn't any reason to argue with you about it.
 
#15
#15
VolsNSkinsFan said:
You didn't answer the simple question
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Yes, I have been to funerals. I go to share stories with friends and family regarding the life of the deceased. I do not go to remember the body; and, I avoid going to burials whenever possible.
 
#16
#16
I'll agree in the respect that open casket funerals make me uncomfortable. But I pay my respects to the deceased remains...
 
#17
#17
I consider going to a funeral as a way to show my respects to the family of the deceased.

I could never call a body garbage.
 
#18
#18
Remains are property of the estate. If the executor views that property as worthless, that's fine. Just don't be upset if those remains are treated as worthless. The armed services should not view those deeded assets as worthless and should at least bury them at sea. If the executor view those remains to be as valuable as a ton of gold, then I will respect that too
 
#19
#19
Funerals over here is an excuse for a non-stop three day party (literally 24 hours a day). It is nothing but delicious food and drinking while reliving the deceased through funny anecdotes. Beats the hell out of funerals in the US.
 
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#20
#20
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Remains are property of the estate. If the executor views that property as worthless, that's fine. Just don't be upset if those remains are treated as worthless. The armed services should not view those deeded assets as worthless and should at least bury them at sea. If the executor view those remains to be as valuable as a ton of gold, then I will respect that too
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In attempting to prove that a deceased body you have now equated it to an inherited financial asset. Let's test how consistent you are in this stance. Do you think the body should be flown back with honors, as is currently done? Do you think the foot lockers of the deceased should be flown back with the same honors? Do you think an external hard drive that is likely full of pornography should be flown back with honors?
 
#21
#21
I would agree with you. I tend to get emotional based on the feelings of those around me. therefore, the somber and sad ambiance in Western funerals makes me cry...almost without exception. Im sure a party would ahve the opposite effect. This was in repsonse to PKT
 
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#22
#22
therealUT said:
In attempting to prove that a deceased body you have now equated it to an inherited financial asset. Let's test how consistent you are in this stance. Do you think the body should be flown back with honors, as is currently done? Do you think the foot lockers of the deceased should be flown back with the same honors? Do you think an external hard drive that is likely full of pornography should be flown back with honors?
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Sure it should be packed up and taken care of properly, its their property. The computer shouldnt have porno on it b/c its against the rules if you are in Afghanistan
 
#23
#23
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Sure it should be packed up and taken care of properly, its their property. The computer shouldnt have porno on it b/c its against the rules if you are in Afghanistan
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You did not answer the question. Should the trunk, hard drive, etc. be returned with the same honors as a corpse? Bodies are flown back with great "pomp and circumstance"; if the body is simply an inherited asset, then why not the same pomp with the rest of the property?
 
#24
#24
KiffinKiller said:
I would agree with you. I tend to get emotional based on the feelings of those around me. therefore, the somber and sad ambiance in Western funerals makes me cry...almost without exception. Im sure a party would ahve the opposite effect. This was in repsonse to PKT
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Ha. I am just the opposite, KK. The somberness and seriousness of Western funerals makes me very uncomfortable. In person I am never serious. I tend to have your message board personality. Constantly cracking jokes, pushing buttons, and crossing (or at least testing) that line. The only way I can deal with a serious moment is to laugh. It is my defense mechanism for awkwardness. There is pretty much no taboo as great in the States as cracking a smile at a serious Western funeral.

I have to be seriously emotionally invested in a funeral to have the somberness that others can so easily display. Luckily I have only had only had to attend one funeral which I was emotionally invested. It is not the say that I don't feel sad at other funerals but I just can't physically deal with a room full of crying and somber individuals.
 
#25
#25
This is all imo. But, the armed services has, let's call it "eminent domain", over that body. The armed services should view that body as a piece of property that is worthy of a US flag draped box. Once that body has arrived in the states, it is automatically property of the estate. If the estate signs off on ppwk, stating that it's no longer their property and is therefore property of the US govt, than the govt should treat that property as having value.

The locker is also at first property of the armed services until that property arrives back in the states. If the armed services want to box up their locker and ship it with the body while having its own flag draped over it, that's fine. It's their property. If they want to neatly fold up the stuff and FedEx it back to the states, that's fine.
 
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