Seattle wants to fire white officers

#5
#5
happy-go_vol said:
Seattle City Council Member Suggests Firing White Officers In Massive Reduction Of Police Department

I think they should. That way further deaths from cops, people can't blame racism.
Click to expand...
I read the article and missed where Herbold actually suggested firing only white officers or firing anyone based on race. Maybe she does feel that way, but as far as I can tell this article is a poorly constructed straw man.

The only quote I see is Herbold calling out the police chief’s threat that defunding the police would mean firing BIPOC officers first. The police chief is the race baiter here.

I in no way support the movement to defund. But if they do, there are ways to lay people off besides based on seniority or based on race. How about based on performance? Based on number of complaints/disciplinary actions?
 
#6
#6
BartW said:
I read the article and missed where Herbold actually suggested firing only white officers or firing anyone based on race. Maybe she does feel that way, but as far as I can tell this article is a poorly constructed straw man.

The only quote I see is Herbold calling out the police chief’s threat that defunding the police would mean firing BIPOC officers first. The police chief is the race baiter here.

I in no way support the movement to defund. But if they do, there are ways to lay people off besides based on seniority or based on race. How about based on performance? Based on number of complaints/disciplinary actions?
Click to expand...
You better read it again ,slowly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StarRaider
#7
#7
BartW said:
I read the article and missed where Herbold actually suggested firing only white officers or firing anyone based on race. Maybe she does feel that way, but as far as I can tell this article is a poorly constructed straw man.

The only quote I see is Herbold calling out the police chief’s threat that defunding the police would mean firing BIPOC officers first. The police chief is the race baiter here.

I in no way support the movement to defund. But if they do, there are ways to lay people off besides based on seniority or based on race. How about based on performance? Based on number of complaints/disciplinary actions?
Click to expand...
The Police contract with the City most likely dictates how a reduction of force is instituted.
 
#9
#9
BartW said:
I in no way support the movement to defund. But if they do, there are ways to lay people off besides based on seniority or based on race. How about based on performance? Based on number of complaints/disciplinary actions?
Click to expand...

Using performance as a metric is racist...so "they" say.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rickyvol77 and MemphisVol77
#10
#10
tntar heel said:
The Police contract with the City most likely dictates how a reduction of force is instituted.
Click to expand...
And if you lay off based on performance, that's not actually a layoff. It's firing. And if they have a defined performance management program (i.e. x many write-up, etc...) before you can fire them, and you lay them off based on performance, you just got sued several times over.

If you lay off based on race, that's a protected class and you just broke the law.

If you lay off based on age, that's a protected class as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols, StarRaider and tntar heel
#11
#11
Orange_Crush said:
And if you lay off based on performance, that's not actually a layoff. It's firing. And if they have a defined performance management program (i.e. x many write-up, etc...) before you can fire them, and you lay them off based on performance, you just got sued several times over.

If you lay off based on race, that's a protected class and you just broke the law.

If you lay off based on age, that's a protected class as well.
Click to expand...

I hope they do , the lawsuits from being fired for their skin color will keep that city and it’s attorneys busy for years .
 
  • Like
Reactions: StarRaider
#12
#12
tntar heel said:
The Police contract with the City most likely dictates how a reduction of force is instituted.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is kind of the point of this back-and-forth between chief best and city council. Apparently, the contract is overseen by the Public Safety Civil Service Commission and rule 15 section b of the Laws, Rules, and Policies that all contracts must follow supports Hernbold’s assertion that it is possible to do layoffs out of the regular order (which is by seniority). The PSCSC hasn’t ruled but said they will listen to all arguments.

I’m NAL so I can’t comment beyond that except to say I agree that it would probably lead to years of court battles
 
#15
#15
BartW said:
I read the article and missed where Herbold actually suggested firing only white officers or firing anyone based on race. Maybe she does feel that way, but as far as I can tell this article is a poorly constructed straw man.

The only quote I see is Herbold calling out the police chief’s threat that defunding the police would mean firing BIPOC officers first. The police chief is the race baiter here.

I in no way support the movement to defund. But if they do, there are ways to lay people off besides based on seniority or based on race. How about based on performance? Based on number of complaints/disciplinary actions?
Click to expand...

Can you link to the chief race baiting, because I can't find that? I did see that he referenced what appears to be a policy of seniority-based layoffs, and pointing out that it would disproportionately affect minority officers.

Exactly how is that race baiting?
 
#17
#17
hmhawk said:
No quote. The article just says she says firing white officers is discrimination for a good cause.
Click to expand...
Well that’s my point, the article is crap. She never said any of that stuff. You’re putting words in her mouth. It’s a straw man. It’s old news recycled with extreme spin.
 
#18
#18
Orange_Crush said:
Can you link to the chief race baiting, because I can't find that? I did see that he referenced what appears to be a policy of seniority-based layoffs, and pointing out that it would disproportionately affect minority officers.

Exactly how is that race baiting?
Click to expand...
Link

City Council: We’re planning to defund SPD 50%
Chief: Ok but then we’ll have to fire most of the black officers first.
City Council: No you don’t.

...

It’s literally the first thing she said in response to the defund news. Best brought race into this, not Herbold.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Septic
#19
#19
BartW said:
Link

City Council: We’re planning to defund SPD 50%
Chief: Ok but then we’ll have to fire most of the black officers first.
City Council: No you don’t.

...

It’s literally the first thing she said in response to the defund news. Best brought race into this, not Herbold.
Click to expand...
Your definition of race baiting is seriously flawed, then. Here's Webster's definition:

the making of verbal attacks against members of a racial group
Click to expand...

It sounds like the conversation went something to the effect of:


Layoff 50% of the officers.
Are you sure you want to do that? Policy is that layoffs are done by seniority. Since we've hired more minorities recently, that will disproportionately affect minorities.
Click to expand...

So, it's your contention that pointing out the unintended consequences of a decision is race baiting? Asking for a reconsideration of a decision so that it doesn't disproportionately affect a race is race baiting?
 
  • Like
Reactions: UT_Dutchman and marcusluvsvols
#20
#20
I'm just throwing this out here, but does anyone actually think that if the city cuts the police force by 50% that in 5 years it can sustain itself? I think they'll have a mass exodus and those of us that live in red states with no income tax better look out because they're coming for our state next.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UT_Dutchman
#22
#22
"Herbold clearly believes that it is discrimination for a good cause."
Stopped reading after above comment.
 
#23
#23
Orange_Crush said:
Your definition of race baiting is seriously flawed, then. Here's Webster's definition:



It sounds like the conversation went something to the effect of:




So, it's your contention that pointing out the unintended consequences of a decision is race baiting? Asking for a reconsideration of a decision so that it doesn't disproportionately affect a race is race baiting?
Click to expand...
When I google it I get “the unfair use of statements about race to try to influence the actions or attitudes of a particular group of people” (Merriam-Webster).

She has a pretty long list of potential consequences but leads with that?

(And Herbold is the racist for saying Best is wrong?)
 
#24
#24
BartW said:
When I google it I get “the unfair use of statements about race to try to influence the actions or attitudes of a particular group of people” (Merriam-Webster).

She has a pretty long list of potential consequences but leads with that?

(And Herbold is the racist for saying Best is wrong?)
Click to expand...
I haven't weighed in on Herbold. You did.

I'm saying that your definition of race-baiting, by either definition, is skewed to the point of disingenuous. It is not unfair to say that the decision to fire officers will disproportionately affect minority officers, nor is it making verbal attacks against them.

You outkicked your coverage on trying to defend the committee member here. If you want to be fair, you'd probably just want to reply that the article is an opinion piece that doesn't give enough detail about the exchange.

A boss trying to protect his minority employees as a race baiter... Geez us.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UT_Dutchman, marcusluvsvols and hmhawk
#25
#25
BartW said:
Link

City Council: We’re planning to defund SPD 50%
Chief: Ok but then we’ll have to fire most of the black officers first.
City Council: No you don’t.

...

It’s literally the first thing she said in response to the defund news. Best brought race into this, not Herbold.
Click to expand...
How do you interpret this?

0E7795ED-893E-497B-A6AF-F8FB8BAF15D6.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top