Seven players + foul trouble

[madtownvol]

1. Should the LVs have beaten VT at home? Yes.

2. Why didn't they? Playing ugly basketball did not help but the reality is that the LVs had plenty of wide-open shots that they clanked. They had more than enough opportunity to put VT away in the first half but missed opportunity after opportunity.

3. The super short bench and foul trouble limited the options that any coach would have had under those circumstances. Meme came and could not buy a bucket (missing a big opportunity to establish herself); Jordan continued to struggle (what happened to the big shot maker of her freshman season). Graves for some reason was playing so low energy in the first half and only got up to a fair to middlin' level in the 2nd half.

4. Diamond and Mercedes were the only semblance of a bright spot but against that level of comp., Mercedes could and should have been more of a force. And Diamond got lost in the 2nd half. She gets a pass since she is still playing her way back into shape. But that is the kind of game where your superstar needs to take over and make key buckets down the stretch.

5. This was a really bad loss for the program; following a poor performance against TX with a loss at home to an unranked opponent (ETSU is a trivial interruption between losses) definitely creates a sense of crisis.

6. The LVs are getting harder to watch as the season goes on. That is a bad sign. The "wake-up" was supposed to have been the TX game.

7. When Jamie and Jasmine get back (assuming the best about JJ), that should help provide both depth and spark but both will need some time (particularly the relatively inexperienced Nared) to get into the flow. Neither are going to be the magic cures to whatever ails the LVs.

6. Can Holly save her job? She is very likely to finish the season no matter what. If the LVs turn it around and win the conference regular season and again make a deeper run in the tournament (at least Great 8), expect Holly to stay on. Anything less than that, and the administrations hand will be forced to make a change.

7. Someone in an earlier thread mentioned Kara Lawson as a replacement option. That would be out of the box (and unlikely given the current AD) but I think it would be a brilliant move. Kara is smart, fiery, lots of recruiting credibility, knows the game very well, and she has both LV pedigree and lots and lots of experience with other systems. So that would be the best of both worlds. And her inexperience could be balanced with a strong assistant coach and she should have the connections to bring in coaching talent.

If there was ever a time for write-in campaign, now would be it. KARA for LVs head coach!

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Te'a Cooper will be Freshman Of The Year. I knew after the two exhibition games she played in.

Holly will remain coach through Next season.

 

[volnationnj]

#6. I disagree. If Holly gets the LV's to finish with 8 loses this season, doesn't win the SEC tournament and loses in the round of 16 in the NCAA's, she will still be coaching next year. She would either have to voluntarily step down or the team would have to blow up completely for her not to continue as coach next year. They will give her a lot more leeway than you're suggesting.

 

[Vols4us]

It behooves Bama Dave for Holly to remain HC and muddle around stuck in the mire for a year or two to let the Lady Vols thing die down.

 

[mlindsay]

I wonder how much of importance is the Women's game to the boosters (Alumni) of the university? Could former players (both men and women) voice enough outrage that Dave Hart is removed as AD or will the university not go to those lengths all for a "Women's Program". Holly will not step down (imo because she doesn't think she is the problem) unless Pat encourages her to (and I don't think Pat will do that at this state of her Dementia). As I have stated before (and Candace Parker has started and I am sure Tamika Catchings had something to say about the effort of players and coaches a like yesterday) it is going to take former players to voice displeasure with Holly (which I don't see happening at least right now) and how the program is being handled. I don't think Tyler is ready but he will unfortunately have to rebuild what Holly has torn down. I don't want any outsider taking over our program and would prefer it be a Lady Vol because they know the Tradition and what it means to the fans and Pat's Legacy. I'm hoping Holly does the right thing (she is a good assistant but a Horrible Head Coach) and step down and allow someone else to steer the ship. We are losing recruits, the next thing will be our players transferring out and before you know it the program is done.

 

[madtownvol]

I wonder how much of importance is the Women's game to the boosters (Alumni) of the university? Could former players (both men and women) voice enough outrage that Dave Hart is removed as AD or will the university not go to those lengths all for a "Women's Program". Holly will not step down (imo because she doesn't think she is the problem) unless Pat encourages her to (and I don't think Pat will do that at this state of her Dementia). As I have stated before (and Candace Parker has started and I am sure Tamika Catchings had something to say about the effort of players and coaches a like yesterday) it is going to take former players to voice displeasure with Holly (which I don't see happening at least right now) and how the program is being handled. I don't think Tyler is ready but he will unfortunately have to rebuild what Holly has torn down. I don't want any outsider taking over our program and would prefer it be a Lady Vol because they know the Tradition and what it means to the fans and Pat's Legacy. I'm hoping Holly does the right thing (she is a good assistant but a Horrible Head Coach) and step down and allow someone else to steer the ship. We are losing recruits, the next thing will be our players transferring out and before you know it the program is done.

At UT, like most major University, football drives everything. And when things are going bad for the football team, that circumstance generally does not put direct pressure on the AD (except to hire a new coach). AD's are generally brought down by scandals or a financial crisis, not poor performances of specific teams.

However, I think the LVs are a big enough brand that even a presumably indifferent AD would respond to public pressures for a coaching change, particularly if the team really falls short of the standard. I don' think Holly could withstand for example, a first round loss in the NCAA tournament or a middle of the pack finish in the SEC.

At the end of the day, I think the LVs, if they get healthy and Diamond really gets it going, will have too much talent for such a bad outcome. My still optimistic expectation is that the team will have a good run of form during the SEC stretch. From a perception standpoint, it is always better to have a slow start and a strong finish than the other way around. So, Holly and staff still have time to salvage the season and their positions.

But, I don't think Holly is by any means secure at this point. Who knows for sure what the break point is but her margin for error is dropping with every poor performance.

 

[madtownvol]

Te'a Cooper will be Freshman Of The Year. I knew after the two exhibition games she played in.

Holly will remain coach through Next season.

Te'a has a lot of pressure on her as the freshman PG. She had a really, really bad game against VT (as she had company in that category).

You when as a team and lose as a team but the PG has a role in settling a team down and executing the half court offense. Te'a consistently dribbled into double teams, missed open shots and made bad passes and did not see open lanes. Unfortunately, when Jordan or Drea ran the point, things did not improve.

Honestly, down the stretch, you put the ball in Diamond's hand; you are the point and the creator. If there was one major coaching gaffe that CHW made in that game, was not making Diamond more central down the stretch.

 

[alexvol]

Te'a Cooper will be Freshman Of The Year. I knew after the two exhibition games she played in.

Holly will remain coach through Next season.

Only if no team plays a zone will Tea be Freshman of the year .....what are the odds that will happen ????

 

[VolsFan-TX]

2. Why didn't they? Playing ugly basketball did not help but the reality is that the LVs had plenty of wide-open shots that they clanked. They had more than enough opportunity to put VT away in the first half but missed opportunity after opportunity.

Many wide-open shots were missed, including some within 3 feet of the basket. The LVs did not score a point in the final 6:27.

 

[madtownvol]

Many wide-open shots were missed, including some within 3 feet of the basket. The LVs did not score a point in the final 6:27.

Here is a quote from Diamond, reported in the Tennessean:

The issue was we kind of shot ourselves in the foot,” DeShields said. “We stopped cutting. We stopped getting the ball inside. We stopped getting inside shots. I know personally I started shooting 3s, where in the first half I was getting in the paint and driving more. I believe we definitely shot ourselves in the foot. It’s definitely a learning experience.”

It is an accurate assessment of what the LVs did wrong down the stretch, though the VT zone made it harder to go inside. The question is why did the team fall into this same bad habit, which has happened on numerous occasions this season?

One charitable theory is that that Holly and Staff are wanting the team to buy into a certain philosophy and putting responsibility on them to make it happen during games. If that is the case, then someone needs to step and be the leader. And in that regard, this players-take-responsibility is very much a CPS legacy. Back in the day it was Nicky Anosike and Candace Parker would take charge when the chips were down. CPS never really found that player in the so-called baby vols class. I am not sure she is here either but, if it is going to be anyone, it will likely be DeShields.

 

[armchair]

First, Cooper should not be our starting point guard. She's been bad in every game since the first one or two.

Second, whatever freakin' offense we run, DeShields and Reynolds should be driving to the basket more, which should result in either baskets, foul shots, or by getting into the lane, dishes to Graves and Russell. The best part of Reynolds' offensive game--the only good part of it--is using her size to get to the basket. Do that, and either score or dish. Same with DeShields--Carter, too. One of the fundamental things that players do when they are not hitting shots is taking the ball to the rack and trying to draw fouls--basketball 101.

No doubt we are stuck with Warlick & Co. this year--but we need a new staff. The women's basketball team is the second most prominent sports program at the university. Hart needs to pull his dyed head out of his shorts and get a handle on this coaching debacle. How much of a buyout is Warlick entitled to--anybody know?

Kara Lawson would probably make a great coach--except that she has no coaching experience. Jason Kidd was hired as an NBA head coach without any coaching experience--and flopped in Brooklyn; got sacked after one year or so--but he's now the head coach in Milwaukee. But she has got a lot of the qualities that you look for in a coach. ....

 

[madtownvol]

Kara Lawson would probably make a great coach--except that she has no coaching experience. Jason Kidd was hired as an NBA head coach without any coaching experience--and flopped in Brooklyn; got sacked after one year or so--but he's now the head coach in Milwaukee. But she has got a lot of the qualities that you look for in a coach. ....

Actually, Kidd did get off to a slow start but guided the Nets to a playoff birth in his first season and garnered much recognition during that run. He was recruited away by the Bucks (helped by personality conflicts with the Nets ownership): From his Wikipedia page:

After a loss to the Chicago Bulls on Christmas Day, the Nets dropped to a disappointing 9-19 record. Many critics started to question Kidd's ability to manage a group of veterans that included Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Joe Johnson and there even appeared rumours that Kidd might be on his way out before the end of the season.[52] However, the Nets were able to turn the things around at the beginning of 2014 and finished the season with a 44-38 record, while Kidd began to get recognition for his coaching skills.

On February 3, 2014, Kidd was named the Eastern Conference Coach of the Month for January.[53] On April 1, 2014, he was named Eastern Conference Coach of the Month a second time for March.[54] He became the fourth coach overall to win both Player of the Month and Coach of the Month honors. He also became the second coach, after Jeff Hornacek of the Phoenix Suns, to win both honors with the same team.[55]

In the first round of the 2014 NBA Playoffs, the Brooklyn Nets eliminated the Toronto Raptors in a 7-game series. Kidd is the 19th rookie head coach in the league's history to coach his team in a decisive Game 7 on the road, and became the first one to win it.[56] In the semifinals, the Nets faced the Miami Heat and lost the series 4-1.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Really thought this was going to be a thread trying to make excuses for Holly. So glad you didn't go there.

I know the situation is dire if madtownvol is talking about coaching changes...

 

[Spook1]

:rock:Consider this for games Albany, Chattanooga, East Tennessee State, Texas and Virginia Tech. Turnovers total of 89 with average of 17.8 per game. Personal Fouls total of 89 with averaged of 17.8 per game. 3-Point scoring for Albany, East Tennessee State and Virginia Tech total of 48.7% for an average of 16.23% per game...horrible. The LV will not survive the first game of the SEC with those performances.

1. Should the LVs have beaten VT at home? Yes.

2. Why didn't they? Playing ugly basketball did not help but the reality is that the LVs had plenty of wide-open shots that they clanked. They had more than enough opportunity to put VT away in the first half but missed opportunity after opportunity.

3. The super short bench and foul trouble limited the options that any coach would have had under those circumstances. Meme came and could not buy a bucket (missing a big opportunity to establish herself); Jordan continued to struggle (what happened to the big shot maker of her freshman season). Graves for some reason was playing so low energy in the first half and only got up to a fair to middlin' level in the 2nd half.

4. Diamond and Mercedes were the only semblance of a bright spot but against that level of comp., Mercedes could and should have been more of a force. And Diamond got lost in the 2nd half. She gets a pass since she is still playing her way back into shape. But that is the kind of game where your superstar needs to take over and make key buckets down the stretch.

5. This was one a really bad loss for the program; following a bad performance against TX with a loss at home to an unranked opponent (ETSU is a trivial interruption between losses).

6. The LVs are getting harder to watch as the season goes on. That is a bad sign. The "wake-up" was supposed to have been the TX game.

7. When Jamie and Jasmine get back (assuming the best about JJ), that should help provide both depth and spark but both will need some time (particularly the relatively inexperienced Nared) to get into the flow. Neither are going to be the magic cures to whatever ails the LVs.

6. Can Holly save her job? She is very likely to finish the season no matter what. If the LVs turn it around and win the conference regular season and again make a deeper run in the tournament (at least Great 8), expect Holly to stay on. Anything less than that, and the administrations hand will be forced to make a change.

7. Someone in an earlier thread mentioned Kara Lawson as a replacement option. That would be out of the box (and unlikely given the current AD) but I think it would be a brilliant move. Kara is smart, fiery, lots of recruiting credibility, knows the game very well, and she has both LV pedigree and lots and lots of experience with other systems. So that would be the best of both worlds. And her inexperience could be balanced with a strong assistant coach and she should have the connections to bring in coaching talent.

If there was ever a time for write-in campaign, now would be it. KARA for LVs head coach!

 

[Volfan2012]

I think Holly has some coaching deficiencies but I feel bad for her in the effect that she is getting nothing out of Reynolds, Cooper, and Carter in almost every game this season. Cooper has played a couple good games and the rest not so good. Reynolds hasn't played a game all season and other than a few defensive plays neither has Carter.
You could add when they are healthy the low IQ plays of Middleton and Jones have committed turnovers when no was was within ten feet of them.
Diamond has looked good in parts of games but has looked nothing like the superstar player that she was supposed to be. She has certainly done more alone than three or four players already mentioned.
Graves had played well up to the last couple games and now she is struggling to make shots. Mercedes has played well in most game but certainly has not been as aggressive as you would like a player of her height to be.
Overall a lot of the blame has to go to Holly but there is plenty to go around for most of the players as well. We threw up at least ten air balls yesterday and committed several mindless turnovers.
I'm hoping some players get well because I'm benching several players If I'm Holly. Even with her limitations on defense Dunbar can at least hit a few threes. 1 of 19 you will never win. We got outscored 27 to 3 from the three point line. That is embarrassing for a team that starts five McDonald's All-Americans.

 

[Volfan2012]

To add I don't see any player taking a leadership role and bringing this team together. It seems that none of the players want to be the one to hurt anyone's feelings. Someone has to be the leader on the court and right now it is not there. I hope we see some improvement because when you look at this team on paper and their recruiting rankings they stack up top five in talent in the nation.
They got manhandled by a bunch of three star players yesterday because we failed to get several 50-50 balls and let them have a lot of open looks from the three point line.

Plus players that must help the team because they play a lot of minutes were 2 of 20 from the field. How can you win with that atrocious play. I think instead of improving their games these girls have spent the summer pursuing other activities.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

I think Holly has some coaching deficiencies but I feel bad for her in the effect that she is getting nothing out of Reynolds, Cooper, and Carter in almost every game this season. Cooper has played a couple good games and the rest not so good. Reynolds hasn't played a game all season and other than a few defensive plays neither has Carter.
You could add when they are healthy the low IQ plays of Middleton and Jones have committed turnovers when no was was within ten feet of them.
Diamond has looked good in parts of games but has looked nothing like the superstar player that she was supposed to be. She has certainly done more alone than three or four players already mentioned.
Graves had played well up to the last couple games and now she is struggling to make shots. Mercedes has played well in most game but certainly has not been as aggressive as you would like a player of her height to be.
Overall a lot of the blame has to go to Holly but there is plenty to go around for most of the players as well. We threw up at least ten air balls yesterday and committed several mindless turnovers.
I'm hoping some players get well because I'm benching several players If I'm Holly. Even with her limitations on defense Dunbar can at least hit a few threes. 1 of 19 you will never win. We got outscored 27 to 3 from the three point line. That is embarrassing for a team that starts five McDonald's All-Americans.

If you benched a couple of players, the Lady Vols would have to play the entire game with only 5 players.

 

[Hoya Saxa]

If you benched a couple of players, the Lady Vols would have to play the entire game with only 5 players.

In last year's championship game, both Notre Dame and UConn basically played a six-man rotation. So if the players are well-conditioned and play smart with regard to personal fouls, having seven players available for a game is not a big deal.

The problem is trying to practice with only seven. At home, male practice players are available to supplement the ranks. But NCAA regulations prohibit male practice players from traveling with the team. With a three-game road trip coming up, how does a team simulate five-on-five game situations? By using coaches, assistant coaches, managers?

Will the injured players even make the long road trip or would they be better off staying behind at school to rehab their injuries? Will some choose to go home earlier for a longer winter break and get some TLC from mom?

 

[boxerpupsrcool]

Te'a Cooper will be Freshman Of The Year. I knew after the two exhibition games she played in.

Holly will remain coach through Next season.

Guy, this is your fourth or fifth post critizing cooper. We get it, she hasn't played well..

 

[boxerpupsrcool]

If you benched a couple of players, the Lady Vols would have to play the entire game with only 5 players.

Your math skills are impeccable

 

[teacherdean]

It behooves Bama Dave for Holly to remain HC and muddle around stuck in the mire for a year or two to let the Lady Vols thing die down.

The only way the Lady Vols thing will die down is if Holly can figure out what the problem is and fix it. She also have to stop saying things during interviews that in essence are an indictment of her coaching abilities, ether in reality or perceived. In addition, she will need a pretty good recruiting year in 17, especially after what happened for 16.

 

[madtownvol]

Overall a lot of the blame has to go to Holly but there is plenty to go around for most of the players as well. We threw up at least ten air balls yesterday and committed several mindless turnovers.
I'm hoping some players get well because I'm benching several players If I'm Holly. Even with her limitations on defense Dunbar can at least hit a few threes. 1 of 19 you will never win. We got outscored 27 to 3 from the three point line. That is embarrassing for a team that starts five McDonald's All-Americans.

The buck ultimately stops with Holly;that is the nature of being the HC at a premier (or formerly premier) program. Why this team can't hit open shots remains a mystery. How Graves can suddenly be a near non-factor after looking like an AA at the start of the season is a frustrating puzzle but she has been an enigmatic player in the past. DeShields and Russell virtually disappearing in the 3 and 4th quarters is also an inexplicable turn of events.

You can easily envision how the LVs hitting a decent % changes the entire dynamic of a game. But, they aren't hitting shots and most damning of all, they are not controlling the boards. A low shooting % backed up by lots of offensive rebounds and suffocating defense can still win a lot of games; it would certainly be enough to beat the VTs of this world. But that is not happening.

Seven players limited Holly's options and that is a reality. But, she had most of her core players all available with the exception of Jones and presumably Nared. At the start of the season, if you said, okay, would a healthy Russell, Graves, Carter, Reynolds, Cooper, and high ranked recruits Cooper and Jackson be enough to bear VT on the Summitt, I would have bet the house on a LV win (I would also be homeless right now).

There is no denying the coaching staff is not doing enough with the talent they have. I am not a gloom and doomer; there is still time for the LVs to turn their season around; a few good wins and the perception of a crisis and being rudderless ship can be allayed. But, some bad losses on the upcoming road trip and the wheels could come off. The pressure (should be) on Holly and staff to get some positive results and quality team performances.

 

[j'adorevol89]

Not like you all care about my problems but some negligent field tech from at&t cut my uverse line and I was without cable or internet for about 3 days and I missed the game... But I was shocked when I saw the score and pretty sad when I finally saw the post game interviews... This team now see's that they are under achieving and hopefully this will be a wake-up call... But lets not forget that in 06 Tenn lost to unranked Kentucky and Florida

 

[madtownvol]

Not like you all care about my problems but some negligent field tech from at&t cut my uverse line and I was without cable or internet for about 3 days and I missed the game... But I was shocked when I saw the score and pretty sad when I finally saw the post game interviews... This team now see's that they are under achieving and hopefully this will be a wake-up call... But lets not forget that in 06 Tenn lost to unranked Kentucky and Florida

I don't know, you might want to send the tech a thank you note. If there was ever a LV game to not watch, it was this one.

 

[j'adorevol89]

I'm just very saddened right now like I really am I saw the replay and I'm shocked and appauled.. This is sad.. I'm still a positive fan and believer but this is not a good team and Holly even said it

I don't know, you might want to send the tech a thank you note. If there was ever a LV game to not watch, it was this one.