Should Bush pardon Libby?

Should Bush pardon Libby?

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#1
OrangeEmpire

OrangeEmpire

The White Debonair
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Nov 28, 2005
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#1
One of the jurors that condemned him seems to think so.

He did lie under oath, but it was the cover-up and not the crime that got him in trouble.

Leaking Valerie Plame's name is NOT a crime because she didn't have that kind of protection due to her pencil-pushing status at the CIA.

Thoughts?
 
#2
#2
OrangeEmpire said:
Leaking Valerie Plame's name is NOT a crime because she didn't have that kind of protection due to her pencil-pushing status at the CIA.

Thoughts?
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No leaking is not a crime. But lying in an investigation IS. Do the crime pay the time. I feel sorry for the lackey because he thought his boss would cover for him or do a little more to help. He's laundry.
 
#3
#3
Perjury is a crime. The decision will be based on political advantage as virtually all pardons are.

This trial was the second worst example (in my life time) of criminalizing politics -- only topped by the impeachment of Clinton.
 
#4
#4
volinbham said:
Perjury is a crime. The decision will be based on political advantage as virtually all pardons are. This trial was the second worst example (in my life time) of criminalizing politics -- only topped by the impeachment of Clinton.
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That is what I find so humorous about this. the same people who 10 years ago were telling me that perjury was not jusitifiaction for impeachment are now clamoring for heads to roll over ... perjury. The era of situational ethics is truly upon us.
 
#5
#5
Well if the standard was defined 10 years ago, why argue with precedent? On the flipside the ones screaming rule of law 10 years ago are now backpedaling over some notion of a media and liberal witch hunt....

role reversal....gotta love it.
 
#6
#6
Perjury is perjury. However, I do have a problem with the fact that lying to the FBI or any other Federal Department is a crime, but if the FBI lies to a person being interviewed, it is not a crime. That's bull****, in my opinion.
 
#7
#7
A. Sane Fan said:
Perjury is perjury. However, I do have a problem with the fact that lying to the FBI or any other Federal Department is a crime, but if the FBI lies to a person being interviewed, it is not a crime. That's bull****, in my opinion.
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What about lying to a terrorist suspect to get needed info from them?
 
#9
#9
You threw out FBI lying to people interviewed. I commented on that. Are you saying FBI lying to interviewees being wrong only for perjury cases? It's fine for them to lie in all other cases?
 
#10
#10
lying during an interview with a suspect and lying under oath are two different things.
 
#12
#12
perhaps I wasn't clear. law enforcement officers can lie during an interview with a suspect in order to glean information. unless, of course, lying counts as torture.

the suspect, however, can't lie on the stand while he or she is under oath. neither can the law enforcement officer.
 
#13
#13
A. Sane Fan said:
Perjury is perjury. However, I do have a problem with the fact that lying to the FBI or any other Federal Department is a crime, but if the FBI lies to a person being interviewed, it is not a crime. That's bull****, in my opinion.
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The above statement is what I am referring to. What if an agent is lying to a terrorist to get info? Does A.Sane Fan still think FBI lying is a problem?
 
#14
#14
CSpindizzy said:
The above statement is what I am referring to. What if an agent is lying to a terrorist to get info? Does A.Sane Fan still think FBI lying is a problem?
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Here is my point. If a person lies while being interviewed by the FBI, he/she can be charged with perjury. If, in the same interview, an FBI agent tells a lie, for whatever reason, that is perfectly OK. That stinks and shouldn't be allowed. (If I am wrong about this, would someone please straighten me out. I'd love to be wrong on this subject.)

Now, I personally don't care whether the FBI uses lies when conducting interviews, but it just doesn't seem right to me that they can lie with impunity during an official interview, but the suspect (victim) is in big trouble if he/she does in the same interview. I'm only referring to perjury here, nothing else.

I'm a conservative but I didn't like the way the Federal government went after Clinton. He lied to a Federal grand jury. That's different. But, I feel sympathy with anyone when the weight of the Federal government goes after them. And I had sympathy for good ole Bill. I think he is 'trash', but I sure didn't like the methods Ken Starr used on his 'witch hunt'.

Am I being clearer now?
 
#15
#15
And what I am asking is whether your dislike of FBI agents lying during interrogations is across the board such as terrorist suspects, etc. to get info vital to national security or is this dislike reserved just for purjury matters for those like Libby and Clinton?
 
#16
#16
CSpindizzy said:
And what I am asking is whether your dislike of FBI agents lying during interrogations is across the board such as terrorist suspects, etc. to get info vital to national security or is this dislike reserved just for purjury matters for those like Libby and Clinton?
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OK, I'll try to be more clear. If a person is being interviewed in any situation that could result in a charge of perjury, the questioners should also be prohibited from commiting perjury. The field should be level.

As I said before, if the FBI lies in an interrogation with any suspect in an attempt to obtain info, that's just fine with me. However, when they do that, they should be prohibited from charging the interviewee with perjury if he/she tells any lies in his/her answers. It's just a thing with me. I believe the same standard should apply to all parties with regards to perjury..........the interviewer(s) and the person being interviewed.

This in no way would prohibit the FBI from lying in questioning a terrorist suspect in an attempt to obtain information. I just don't think they should be allowed to charge that person with perjury. And perjury only.
 
#17
#17
Libby lied to the Grand Jury and so did Clinton. So them as examples do not count. While in most cases this may drop a charge or two, those being questioned by both FBI and Grand Jury have to keep their comments the same. If they lie once, they have to continually lie. So even if the FBI lies, the person on trial still faces the crime of lying to the Grand Jury. On the flipside you can say that evidence or testimony was gathered "illegally" and have everything tossed.
 
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