Soccer and US Top Athletes

#1
H

Hayezb

Vols to the Wall
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#1
For the people that actually follow soccer and other sports as well, Iv'e got a question...

How good do you think we could be if our top athletes focused on soccer instead of basketball or football?

I like to imagine Kobe Bryant choosing soccer over basketball when he was a kid, which he has said that he considered it. Would be an amazing forward or winger. Lebron James has the speed and quickness to play center back or even as a goalie with his reach and reflexes.

Just a few other athletes that I would love to see playing soccer: Chris Johnson, Allen Iverson, Derrick Rose, Russel Westbrook, Steve Nash (even if he is Canadian! ). All these guys are athletes plain and simple. There is no doubt in my mind they could have been unbelievable players if they put as much effort and drive into soccer as they did their current sport.

Soccer is growing tremendously and over the years we will start picking away at some of the top athletes.
 
#2
#2
Soccernomics makes a pretty convincing argument that national soccer prowess is a result of 3 factors: wealth, population, and experience.

We are strong with regard to the first 2 factors. We don't have the experience. Soccer doesn't even have to be the #1 sport in the US, if it were just the #1 sport in CA, or TX, that would be a big enough talent base that we would be a perennial world power within a decade or two, IMO.
 
#4
#4
The U.S. could be a world power in soccer if it wanted to. People just don't care enough about soccer in this country to actually be one though.
 
#5
#5
n_huffhines said:
Soccernomics makes a pretty convincing argument that national soccer prowess is a result of 3 factors: wealth, population, and experience.

We are strong with regard to the first 2 factors. We don't have the experience. Soccer doesn't even have to be the #1 sport in the US, if it were just the #1 sport in CA, or TX, that would be a big enough talent base that we would be a perennial world power within a decade or two, IMO.
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I can agree with that.

Klinsmann is suppose to be changing the way we train and develop our elite youth players. I really hope they give him time to turn things around. He's one of the brightest minds the US has imo.
 
#7
#7
I don't see guys like Lebron or Kobe making it as a world-class soccer player (Nash could have). Some sports skills just don't translate into others
 
#8
#8
utvolpj said:
I don't see guys like Lebron or Kobe making it as a world-class soccer player (Nash could have). Some sports skills just don't translate into others
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True. I agree the Lebron thing is stretching it, but Kobe def could of played soccer. There are some videos of him playing with Barcelona players and he's not bad.
 
#9
#9
Hayezb said:
True. I agree the Lebron thing is stretching it, but Kobe def could of played soccer. There are some videos of him playing with Barcelona players and he's not bad.
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playing where? There a difference in basketball speed over a max 94ft and making numerous 40-60yd runs
 
#11
#11
It's not guaranteed that Lebron could play on a world class level, but he has a huge head start with his athletic ability. If you have our large, diverse athletic talent pool focus on soccer we would frequently field the best team in the world, IMO. It's just the law of averages.
 
#12
#12
utvolpj said:
playing where? There a difference in basketball speed over a max 94ft and making numerous 40-60yd runs
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As a winger or forward.

I know there is a difference from playing both. If he had trained physically to play soccer instead of basketball he could have made it imo.
 
#13
#13
n_huffhines said:
It's not guaranteed that Lebron could play on a world class level, but he has a huge head start with his athletic ability. If you have our large, diverse athletic talent pool focus on soccer we would frequently field the best team in the world, IMO. It's just the law of averages.
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I just want to see a 6'9 freak of nature going up for corners :) Now Lebron could have played TE, his high school football films are crazy.
 
#14
#14
Hayezb said:
I just want to see a 6'9 freak of nature going up for corners :) Now Lebron could have played TE, his high school football films are crazy.
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too bad there aren't situational subs in soccer. Trying to say a great athlete at one sport translates into success in all others is ridiculous. Yes there are some that could make the transition but not the ones you're considering

I do think more emphasis on identifying and training young talent is severely lacking in the US. Other countries do this much better and their success shows it works.
 
#15
#15
utvolpj said:
I don't see guys like Lebron or Kobe making it as a world-class soccer player (Nash could have). Some sports skills just don't translate into others
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IIRC Nash's brother floated around between League Two in the UK (fourth tier) and wound up playing for Vancouver in MLS a few years. He was an alright player overall.

Soccer is a very different animal than other team sports in a number of ways... First, athleticism is very much third fiddle to field vision and foot-eye coordination. If somebody has the latter two but is a relatively poor athlete, they can still succeed at soccer. If somebody is a great athlete but lacks the latter two, they will suck.

I give you Chad Ochocinco and Usain Bolt as exhibit A. They both grew up with soccer and still play occasionally, but 85 tried out for Sporting KC, Bolt showed interest in playing for Man Utd. Ochocinco was (stupidly) offered a contract but was utterly clowned in practice, and Man U's manager wouldn't even entertain the idea. Contrarily, there are guys in top flight leagues who could probably get outpaced by NFL offensive linemen, but it doesn't matter because they keep themselves in good position at all times, and make smart, accurate moves with the ball.

So it really comes down to development. There are robust programs all over Europe, while until recently US sides relied on a hodge podge of drafting high school and college players, and mickey mouse development programs. That's improving but it will take years, if not decades to get to the point where American development matches that of even middling European leagues.
 
#16
#16
Hayezb said:
I can agree with that.

Klinsmann is suppose to be changing the way we train and develop our elite youth players. I really hope they give him time to turn things around. He's one of the brightest minds the US has imo.
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utvolpj said:
too bad there aren't situational subs in soccer. Trying to say a great athlete at one sport translates into success in all others is ridiculous. Yes there are some that could make the transition but not the ones you're considering

I do think more emphasis on identifying and training young talent is severely lacking in the US. Other countries do this much better and their success shows it works.
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Re: Both posts, that works for developing a decent national club, and the US has been doing that for quite some time. Hell, it was just a few years back the US hit #4 in FIFA world rankings.

But becoming a sustained power really comes down to the advancement of clubs and their development programs. We still have a long way to go in that regard.
 
#17
#17
milohimself said:
First, athleticism is very much third fiddle to field vision and foot-eye coordination. If somebody has the latter two but is a relatively poor athlete, they can still succeed at soccer.
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milohimself said:
Contrarily, there are guys in top flight leagues who could probably get outpaced by NFL offensive linemen, but it doesn't matter because they keep themselves in good position at all times, and make smart, accurate moves with the ball.
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wow I couldn't disagree more. A bad athlete on a soccer field will get killed
 
#18
#18
utvolpj said:
wow I couldn't disagree more. A bad athlete on a soccer field will get killed
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The fastest, slowest, fittest players at every Premier League club | Mail Online

Sandro, a midfielder for Tottenham Hotspur, never went faster than 16.28mph all of the 2010-2011 season.

Matt Kalil Draft Profile

Vikings OT Matt Kalil clocked in at 4.99 in the 40 yard dash in the recent NFL draft, or 16.38mph.

Athleticism can definitely be a plus for footballers, but is in no way necessary to be of good quality. Smart positioning and accurate ball movement is a much bigger deal.
 
#19
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milohimself said:
Smart positioning and accurate ball movement is a much bigger deal.
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you are really marginalizing athleticism way too much. Your speed example really shows nothing since an OL could not do it for long enough to matter on the field. They also could not spend 90min working their way into the correct position
 
#20
#20
utvolpj said:
you are really marginalizing athleticism way too much. Your speed example really shows nothing since an OL could not do it for long enough to matter on the field. They also could not spend 90min working their way into the correct position
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No, just presenting a counter to the impression that many Americans seem to have that soccer requires a high level of athleticism, probably because football and basketball require it.

I'm not marginalizing athleticism. There are many great footballers that are also great athletes, but there are also some that most definitely are not.

My point is that the traits I mentioned previously are critical to being a good footballer; they need to be learned very early, and practiced with regularity year-round to get to that point. It's a lot like motorsports in that respect, if you don't start young and dedicate yourself to it, you probably won't get to a high level. That's why Ochocinco and Bolt won't ever be players at any sort of high level.

Athleticism can definitely add quality aspects to somebody's game if they know how to play to begin with, but it never has and never will turn somebody with poor or average fundamentals into a quality player. Contrarily, soccer is littered with guys of moderate fitness and athleticism at best that are quality because they know how to play the game.

Again, the key is starting and committing young. It's extremely rare that you see a guy in the top flight anywhere that picked up the sport with regularity past their early teens.
 
#21
#21
FWIW, my buddy was all-state in HS soccer, and coaches at a ranked JC now in Iowa. He was an average athlete, but had great smarts and technical ability when he played. He practiced with RSL's squad, and I assumed he couldn't hang because he wasn't athletic enough. He told me that wasn't the issue. He said their touch was on a whole different level (and that's MLS).

There are guys that get by on pure athleticism (Robbie Findley) and there are guys that get by on pure skill (Cuatemoc Blanco), but in most cases you have to be strong in both categories.
 
#22
#22
I think you can get by in soccer by just being really fast or a great athlete (Theo Walcott anyone?) but that's not where the U.S. is lacking. When you watch our national team play, it's not that they're slower or weaker than other teams, in fact it's the opposite if anything. The most glaring flaw to me is the knowledge of what to do with the ball immediately, when you watch the Spanish, Dutch, or Germans their first touch has purpose and when you watch the U.S. our first touch is just to settle the ball, then figure out what to do with it. That seems like a small thing, but it really limits our ball movement and tactics.
 
#23
#23
Findley has definitely fallen off since moving to Nottingham Forest. MLS is very average compared to European leagues, maybe at the same level as Austria/Scotland/Poland at best for the most part. Raw athleticism can get you by at lower levels, but any time that sort of player moves up to a better league, production drops steeply.
 
#24
#24
Il Principo said:
I think you can get by in soccer by just being really fast or a great athlete (Theo Walcott anyone?) but that's not where the U.S. is lacking. When you watch our national team play, it's not that they're slower or weaker than other teams, in fact it's the opposite if anything. The most glaring flaw to me is the knowledge of what to do with the ball immediately, when you watch the Spanish, Dutch, or Germans their first touch has purpose and when you watch the U.S. our first touch is just to settle the ball, then figure out what to do with it. That seems like a small thing, but it really limits our ball movement and tactics.
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Theo Walcott also knows how to play.

It still seems that MLS reserves and USLPDL are coming along nicely. American sides are slowly starting to bring in more and more homegrown talent, and every few years there are a couple more guys on MLS sides making the roster. It's a slow process, but we're getting better.
 
#25
#25
milohimself said:
Findley has definitely fallen off since moving to Nottingham Forest. MLS is very average compared to European leagues, maybe at the same level as Austria/Scotland/Poland at best for the most part. Raw athleticism can get you by at lower levels, but any time that sort of player moves up to a better league, production drops steeply.
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Findley fell off before leaving the MLS. After the World Cup his confidence was shattered, and his last season at RSL was a disaster. Sad. I'm rooting for the guy.
 
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