Somalia

[therealUT]

Since Somalia is back in the news, I have a pretty simple question to ask:

Had the Clinton Administration granted General Garrison's request to have a AC-130 Spectre Gunship as part of his firepower in Somalia, how would the world be different today?

For some who are a little more foreign in the world of military tactics, let me explain that had a Gunship been providing cover, our Blackhawks would not have been hovering over Bakara Market, completely exposed to RPG fire. Pfc. Blackburn still would have fallen from his helicopter, however, that would have been the only hiccup in the operation.

The mission would have been a success, as the Rangers captured 7 of Aidid's top lieutenants. The intelligence that would have been pried out of those 7 men, more than likely would have led to the capture of Aidid.

Would the capture of Aidid, and the restoration of Mogadishu, had shown to the world that America gets its man? Would this act have deterred al Qaeda from striking American interests in the Middle East, Africa, and eventually America? Would this act have given the Clinton Administration confidence to pursue bin Laden in Afghanistan and to actually wage war, instead of stability ops, against Milosevic in the former Yugoslavia? Finally, would Saddam have been more complient with UN and US inspectors?

 

[CSpindizzy]

I don't think a gunship could have saved the operation. There is no way a gunship would have been given clearance to fire into an area filled with untold numbers of civilians. No matter who was President, none would have allowed gunfire to pour into an area filled with civilians, non-combatants, etc. Take the BH's out and the convoys would have still come under attack from hidden areas not open to open fire. Helicopters would have still needed to sweep in and you'd have seen the same if not a similar result.

 

[therealUT]

I don't think a gunship could have saved the operation. There is no way a gunship would have been given clearance to fire into an area filled with untold numbers of civilians. No matter who was President, none would have allowed gunfire to pour into an area filled with civilians, non-combatants, etc. Take the BH's out and the convoys would have still come under attack from hidden areas not open to open fire. Helicopters would have still needed to sweep in and you'd have seen the same if not a similar result.

The gatling gun on the AC-130 is extremely accurate. One of my mentors, an O5 in 5th SF Group, told me they were conducting training exercises with the gunships, and that the gunner told them to throw a heating pad (one of the little ones you can fit in your boot) onto the ground. The gunner hit the heating pad, from 1500 feet in the air. The operation would not have needed Blackhawk's as fire support...which is against their doctrine anyway.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Can that detect moving targets mixed in with civilians? Can it detect which human mixed in a crowd is pulling out the RPG? Can it detect which building the fire is coming from or where it could potentially come from? Again, it becomes quite difficult to distinguish in large crowds who the threat is and where they come from. The problem with this situation was that women and children were all mixed in with these crowds. A gunship flying overhead could not have helped unless it had clearance to wipe the place clean. If that occurred you could just go ahead and send letters to parents and spouses of quite a few Americans on the ground because reprisals would be swift and deadly.

 

[therealUT]

Can that detect moving targets mixed in with civilians? Can it detect which human mixed in a crowd is pulling out the RPG? Can it detect which building the fire is coming from or where it could potentially come from? Again, it becomes quite difficult to distinguish in large crowds who the threat is and where they come from. The problem with this situation was that women and children were all mixed in with these crowds. A gunship flying overhead could not have helped unless it had clearance to wipe the place clean. If that occurred you could just go ahead and send letters to parents and spouses of quite a few Americans on the ground because reprisals would be swift and deadly.

There was no problem with the situation until the first Blackhawk crashed.

Further, using that logic, then one would assume that in all MOUT operations in Arab countries, we would have sniper support from Blackhawk helicopters...we don't! We did not in Panama (AC-130s and Cobras) and we do not in Iraq. That is before and after. The difference is, we needed eyes, and precision fire "if" something went wrong. That precision fire comes from the AC-130 in all situations that it is available.