Something is bad wrong in Knoxville

#1
Vol4ever

Vol4ever

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#1
I have been a Vol of 30 years. I've watched this program since 1974-75.

Has anyone else noticed these trends over the past several years??

1. We always play to the level of bad teams? I remember when Spurrier used to almost win when he was at DUKE!

2. We are always a top 5 or 10 recruiting class every year? Does that mean recruiting is very overrated?

3. Why do we go to the west coast to recruit when there are plenty of players in the south? Can we not recruit against GA, FL, AU, and Alabama?

4. Coach Fulmer was an offensive line coach and Sanders couldn't play quarterback?

5.. The Vols have had some big wins over the past few years, BUT there is not any consistency in putting lessor teams away.

6. They talk about smash mouth football but I haven't seen it.

I am frustrated with this whole program for several years. Maybe it is because I want to see a strong smash mouth dominanting team each year and that is just not possible. I have believed for some time that Fulmer should have replaced Sanders as offensive coordinator. Whynot, I don't know but it appears that he is just very loyal to his coaches, that is fine as long as the coach is getting the job done and Randy is not, heck Chavis hasn't done much better. If Fulmer can't make the hard decisions about the coaching staff then maybe the administration will have to make some hard decisions when it comes to the head coach.

Now, if the Vols decided to make a change at the head coaching decision, what would be the public reaction? Well, for one I could see ESPN and the sports analyst raising cane about how Fulmer has the best winning pct in college football and how could he even be considered to be replaced. But my opinion is sometimes the hard decision has to be made for the entire organization. I for one have no inside information and I'm just an ordinary fan, but I believe as long as this coaching staff is allowed to guide this program we will be a good football team but not a top 5 contender!

 
#3
#3
I see all of our problems on one side of the ball right now. Of course, it may turn out that UGA goes undefeated and we win out. I don't think there will be alot of complaints at the end of the season if that is how it turns out.
 
#4
#4
first we need to get rid of randy...

we need a talented qb (the season is over in the sec for us so give ainge some reps and try to get him on his feet... we need a spark of offence)

defence is doing good!
 
#5
#5
When the potential of your recruits surpasses the ability of your coaches then this is the result. We see it every year. Very similar to the wisdom expressed in the Bible, "Don't cast your pearls before swine because they will just trample on them as they cannot appreciate thier value nor will not be able to properly care for them (paraphrased)".
 
#6
#6
Originally posted by TBALLVOL@Oct 10, 2005 1:38 PM
When the potential of your recruits surpasses the ability of your coaches then this is the result. We see it every year. Very similar to the wisdom expressed in the Bible, "Don't cast your pearls before swine because they will just trample on them as they cannot appreciate thier value nor will not be able to properly care for them (paraphrased)".
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The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it....... Teddy Roosevelt
 
#7
#7
The recruiting rating is overrated. We are ranked that on signing day. However it is never taken into account whether they qualify or never enroll at that institution. This perhaps will hurt UT's overall top 10 recruting ranking.
 
#8
#8
TOO TRUE crime dog. I see you are a student of leadership and organizational development.
 
#9
#9
Originally posted by TBALLVOL@Oct 10, 2005 2:59 PM
TOO TRUE crime dog. I see you are a student of leadership and organizational development.
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I dabble!
 
#10
#10
the program is on the downswing. our crappy ad hamilton should give fullmer the option to fire sanders get a new coordinator and let him run the entire offense or can fullmer and start over. chances of that happening are 0%
 
#11
#11
Originally posted by Vol4ever@Oct 10, 2005 12:14 PM
I have been a Vol of 30 years.  I've watched this program since 1974-75. 

Has anyone else noticed these trends over the past several years??

1. We always play to the level of bad teams?  I remember when Spurrier used to almost win when he was at DUKE!

2.  We are always a top 5 or 10 recruiting class every year?  Does that mean recruiting is very overrated?

3.  Why do we go to the west coast to recruit when there are plenty of players in the south?  Can we not recruit against GA, FL, AU, and Alabama?

4.  Coach Fulmer was an offensive line coach and Sanders couldn't play quarterback? 

5.. The Vols have had some big wins over the past few years, BUT there is not any consistency in putting lessor teams away.

6.  They talk about smash mouth football but I haven't seen it.

I am frustrated with this whole program for several years.  Maybe it is because I want to see a strong smash mouth dominanting team each year and that is just not possible.  I have believed for some time that Fulmer should have replaced Sanders as offensive coordinator.  Whynot, I don't know but it appears that he is just very loyal to his coaches, that is fine as long as the coach is getting the job done and Randy is not, heck Chavis hasn't done much better.  If Fulmer can't make the hard decisions about the coaching staff then maybe the administration will have to make some hard decisions when it comes to the head coach.

Now, if the Vols decided to make a change at the head coaching decision, what would be the public reaction?  Well, for one I could see ESPN and the sports analyst raising cane about how Fulmer has the best winning pct in college football and how could he even be considered to be replaced.  But my opinion is sometimes the hard decision has to be made for the entire organization.  I for one have no inside information and I'm just an ordinary fan, but I believe as long as this coaching staff is allowed to guide this program we will be a good football team but not a top 5 contender!
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Point by point.

1. Can't argue.

2. Sometimes kids are not what you thought they were and somtimes they surprise. So it is a yes and no.

3. We get a lot of kids out of Florida, Alabama, South and North Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi, VA, KY and Louisiana. So the answer is no. But we are not getting all we should out of their talent.

4. Yes he was and RS did play qb. But for some reason we have had trouble getting all cylinders to fire.

5. Again, I can't argue.

6. We have on D but not on O.
 
#12
#12
We can all talk about what's wrong with the VOLS, but lets put emotion aside and look at the numbers. I decided to do a comparison between Sanders and Cutcliffe since on the surface, it seems as we have gone down in offensive production since 1999. Here's what I found after looking at stats available online at utsports.com.

To make things easy, I used Cutcliffe (1993 - 1998) and Sanders (1999 - 2004). This used 6 years each and since the NCAA started counting bowl games into stats in 2002, I removed them to make things equal.

Total Offense:
'93-'98 - 30,209 yrds=5,034 yrds/yr or 457 yrds per game
'99-'04 - 26,761 yrds=4,460 yrds/yr or 405 yrds per game

Total Points:
'93-'98 - 2408 or 401/yr = 35.39 per game
'99-'04 - 2046 or 341/yr = 29.22 per game

Bowl records:
Cutcliffe: Wins 3.5, Losses 2
Sanders: Wins 2.5, Losses 4
(each gets a half for the '98 Fiesta Bowl)

Win/Loss;
Cutcliffe: 63-9
Sanders: 56-20

This tells us what we felt all along. The offense production has fallen off due to the O.C's. lack of knowledge and inexperience. I'm sure Randy's a great guy, but he's been stuck in only one system and knows nothing else. It's time for change.

If Fulmer can't see it, then he's got to go too. In the business world, the best manager's have to make hard decisions or get fired themselves. Wake up Phil and do the right thing!!

 
#14
#14
Not to argue (much) but Cut got a gift from a Manning for a couple of years. Heck, I think you should give Peyton the OC credit for 96 and 97.

How many Vols from 93-98 are playing in the NFL and how many all-pros? Now, look at the 99-04 and compare. The teams that UT put on the field 93-98 were some of the most talented ever. All the coaches (Cut included) got outcoached 1-2 times every year. Even Spurrier admitted UT was more talented.

I'm not backing RS right now b/c I'm still numb from that loss, so don't take it that way. I was just never that impressed w/ Cutcliffe when he was @ UT. Now that our OC is of lesser talent are we willing to take anyone? IF we get rid of Sanders, I would prefer the new OC come from outside the UT family. Maybe they can add new life to our team.

All I know is that a win against bammer would still make it a beautiful season! Nothing I would enjoy more than to see that confused look on Shula's face yet again.

:bammer:
 
#15
#15
I'm not so sure that it's that clear cut...who's to say that theres less parity in football now, especially the SEC? Maybe defenses are just getting better and better?

 
#16
#16
Originally posted by jwells@Oct 10, 2005 11:38 PM
I'm not so sure that it's that clear cut...who's to say that theres less parity in football now, especially the SEC? Maybe defenses are just getting better and better?
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Better and better at defending the OC and HC who say, "We have a philosophy here at Tennessee. And we're sticking with it. They know what we're going to do, but we're going to do it anyway."
 
#17
#17
Originally posted by Jasongivm6@Oct 10, 2005 11:44 PM
Better and better at defending the OC and HC who say, "We have a philosophy here at Tennessee.  And we're sticking with it.  They know what we're going to do, but we're going to do it anyway."
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That philosophy works about 80% of the time, so I'll take it.
 
#18
#18
The greatest coaches are not those with the best offensive or defensive minds, it's those who surround themselves with those who do and lets them do it. This is basic 101 leadership. Maybe we can all chip in and send Fulmer back to school or at least to a ZigZiglar or John Maxwell seminar.
 
#19
#19
Originally posted by TBALLVOL@Oct 11, 2005 10:00 AM
The greatest coaches are not those with the best offensive or defensive minds, it's those who surround themselves with those who do and lets them do it. This is basic 101 leadership. Maybe we can all chip in and send Fulmer back to school or at least to a ZigZiglar or John Maxwell seminar.
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Knowing what you CAN NOT do is more important than knowing what you can do. In fact its good taste....... Lucille Ball
 
#20
#20
the philosophy works about 3 out of 10 times against ranked teams, and 1 out of 10 times against the top ten. that is not very good.
 
#21
#21
The defenses might be getting better but LSU, Georgia, Alabama, Auburn, etc. are certainly scoring their share of points.
 
#22
#22
Originally posted by utvolpj@Oct 10, 2005 11:28 PM
Not to argue (much) but Cut got a gift from a Manning for a couple of years.  Heck, I think you should give Peyton the OC credit for 96 and 97. 

How many Vols from 93-98 are playing in the NFL and how many all-pros?  Now, look at the 99-04 and compare.  The teams that UT put on the field 93-98 were some of the most talented ever.  All the coaches (Cut included) got outcoached 1-2 times every year.  Even Spurrier admitted UT was more talented.

I'm not backing RS right now b/c I'm still numb from that loss, so don't take it that way.  I was just never that impressed w/ Cutcliffe when he was @ UT.  Now that our OC is of lesser talent are we willing to take anyone?  IF we get rid of Sanders, I would prefer the new OC come from outside the UT family.  Maybe they can add new life to our team.

All I know is that a win against bammer would still make it a beautiful season!  Nothing I would enjoy more than to see that confused look on Shula's face yet again.

:bammer:
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Not only did Cutcliffe get Manning for 4 of his 6 years, he also was OC when Shuler finished 2nd in the Heisman.

The quarterbacks since have been good, but not anywhere near the talent that Shuler and Manning were.

However, the biggest difference in the offenses during Cutcliffe's time as OC and Sanders is the rushing. The rushing offense numbers have been way down since Cutcliffe left.

1993 229.7 ypg 10-2 led by Charlie Garner, James Stewart, Aaron Hayden
1994 232.3 ypg 8-4 Led by James Stewart and Aaron Hayden
1995 176.4 ypg 11-1 Led by Jay Graham
1996 124.9 ypg 10-2 Led by Jay Graham
1997 149.3 ypg 11-2 <SEC Champs> Led by Jamal Lewis
1998 203.8 ypg 13-0 <National Champs> Led by Travis Henry, Jamal Lewis
------
1999 179.0 ypg 9-3 led by Jamal Lewis, Travis Henry
2000 164.0 ypg 8-4 Led by Travis Henry
2001 149.7 ypg 11-2 <East Div.> led by Travis Stephens
2002 150.5 ypg 8-5 led by Cedric Houston, Jabari Davis
2003 138.5 ypg 10-3 led by Cedric Houston, Jabari Davis
2004 186.0 ypg 10-3 <East Div.> led by Gerald Riggs, Cedric Houston
-----
2005 98.8 ypg (thru 5 games) 3-2 led by Gerald Riggs
 
#23
#23
The quarterbacks since have been good, but not anywhere near the talent that Shuler and Manning were.
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Why haven&#39;t they been good since then? When you have a QB like Peyton, shouldn&#39;t QB&#39;s be knocking on your door to play football? Or is it bad recruiting? Or maybe a good passer doesn&#39;t want to come to Tennessee and play within our offense. I&#39;m not trashing Casey, but come on.

The same goes for our running backs, Garner, Stewart, Hayden, Grahm Lewis, Henry, Stephens...........Houston, Davis and Riggs??
 
#24
#24
Originally posted by Vol4ever@Oct 10, 2005 12:14 PM
I have been a Vol of 30 years.  I&#39;ve watched this program since 1974-75. 

Has anyone else noticed these trends over the past several years??

1. We always play to the level of bad teams?  I remember when Spurrier used to almost win when he was at DUKE&#33;

2.  We are always a top 5 or 10 recruiting class every year?  Does that mean recruiting is very overrated?

3.  Why do we go to the west coast to recruit when there are plenty of players in the south?  Can we not recruit against GA, FL, AU, and Alabama?

4.  Coach Fulmer was an offensive line coach and Sanders couldn&#39;t play quarterback? 

5.. The Vols have had some big wins over the past few years, BUT there is not any consistency in putting lessor teams away.

6.  They talk about smash mouth football but I haven&#39;t seen it.

I am frustrated with this whole program for several years.  Maybe it is because I want to see a strong smash mouth dominanting team each year and that is just not possible.  I have believed for some time that Fulmer should have replaced Sanders as offensive coordinator.  Whynot, I don&#39;t know but it appears that he is just very loyal to his coaches, that is fine as long as the coach is getting the job done and Randy is not, heck Chavis hasn&#39;t done much better.  If Fulmer can&#39;t make the hard decisions about the coaching staff then maybe the administration will have to make some hard decisions when it comes to the head coach.

Now, if the Vols decided to make a change at the head coaching decision, what would be the public reaction?  Well, for one I could see ESPN and the sports analyst raising cane about how Fulmer has the best winning pct in college football and how could he even be considered to be replaced.  But my opinion is sometimes the hard decision has to be made for the entire organization.  I for one have no inside information and I&#39;m just an ordinary fan, but I believe as long as this coaching staff is allowed to guide this program we will be a good football team but not a top 5 contender&#33;
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Amen&#33;
 
#25
#25
Originally posted by jwells@Oct 11, 2005 7:28 AM
That philosophy works about 80% of the time, so I&#39;ll take it.
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That number is sinking like the Titanic. With Fulmer/Cutcliffe .808 winning percentage. Fulmer/Sanders .720 winning percentage. This in a conference without Steve Spurrier.
 
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