Spurrier > Saban

#1
Volizona

Volizona

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#1
I absolutely couldn’t stand Spurrier in the 90s. The reason was pretty clear - he talked a lot of smack and always followed through by embarrassing us. However, I always respected him as a coach and I actually pulled for him a bit when he took over a losing SC program and made them respectable. I feared him, but I never once thought that he was somehow corrupt or cheating. He always earned it on the field. I don’t like Saban either, yes, he always beats us, but as a person, I like him less than Spurrier. I just get the sense that he’s ok with cheating the game a bit as long as he wins. He has to know he gets special treatment from refs and other entities and he can look at himself in the mirror and be ok with it. I’m just not sure the ole ball coach would feel feel the same. I feel like he had pride if winning with his offensive genius and cheating would dilute his accomplishments. What say you all?
 
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#2
#2
Meh, honestly trying to say Spurrier was "clean" would kind of like saying that Fulmer was "clean".

Two big schools playing at the top of big boy football. There was nobody around who was innocent. It is what it was.

Hell,we tried our best to cheat big time with Pruitt-and failed miserably.
 
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#4
#4
I know what you mean. I always disliked Spurrier. He made rude comments, rubbing it in when he won which was the majority of the games vs. Tennessee. As frustrating and disappointing as losing to him was though, I never felt he or Florida cheated out a win - it was always won on the field. That is not how I felt after the Alabama game this weekend. I feel Saban was in on it or at least knew about it.
 
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#6
#6
Just stop with this crap. Saban is universally considered the GOAT. He won NCs at two different schools. He made LSU relevant. Spurrier cheated. Spurrier got a lot of calls go his way during his career. Just like Fulmer, Bowden, Meyer, Swinney, Smart and any other coach that’s won at a high level.

Is the argument that if Spurrier has equal talent he would be better than Saban? Is that a joke? Yes Spurrier was great at UF. But he isn’t close to Saban in coaching. TN fans being butthurt about Saban reminds me of a ton of people hating Belicheck and the Patriots. Accusing he then of cheating and blah, blah, blah. Usually when fans accuse their rival teams of cheating is a result of said team being ultra successful. Who do TN fans say are the biggest cheaters? Bama and Georgia. Who are the teams that win the most? Bama and UGA. Coincidence?
 
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#7
#7
BigOrangeTrain said:
TN fans being butthurt about Saban reminds me of a ton of people hating Belicheck and the Patriots. Accusing he then of cheating and blah, blah, blah. Usually when fans accuse their rival teams of cheating is a result of said team being ultra successful. Who do TN fans say are the biggest cheaters? Bama and Georgia. Who are the teams that win the most? Bama and UGA. Coincidence?
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I don't want to argue, just making a few respectful counterpoints. Belicheck had some pretty well known cheating scandals, remember Spygate and Deflategate?

As far as Georgia, aside from a few questionable calls in 2021 I don't recall complaining much about officiating with them. Certainly not last year - they were clearly the better team and handily won the game.

Believe it or not, Florida has had more success against Tennessee over the past 30 years than Alabama but we're not talking about Florida cheating. For years people have referred to Alabama as "Criminal Tide" or "Cheatin' Tide". Based on the officiating last weekend I believe they have that reputation for a reason.
 
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#8
#8
orchidvol said:
I don't want to argue, just making a few respectful counterpoints. Belicheck had some pretty well known cheating scandals, remember Spygate and Deflategate?

As far as Georgia, aside from a few questionable calls in 2021 I don't recall complaining much about officiating with them. Certainly not last year - they were clearly the better team and handily won the game.

Believe it or not, Florida has had more success against Tennessee over the past 30 years than Alabama but we're not talking about Florida cheating. For years people have referred to Alabama as "Criminal Tide" or "Cheatin' Tide". Based on the officiating last weekend I believe they have that reputation for a reason.
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Like I said Bama is cheating, has cheated and will continue to cheat. That’s how you stay elite. If we were on a do I ant run like Bama, everyone in the country would say we were cheating. It is what it is. I mean Pruitt cheated and lost. Difference is Saban cheats and wins at the highest level.
 
#10
#10
I think any good thoughts to Spurrier are only due to him being gone. Wait a couple years after Saban is gone and you will probably fill similarly about him. Saban is still an active foe, who just beat us. of course you have a more negative impression of him than a guy who has been retired for 5 years, at least.
 
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#11
#11
orchidvol said:
I know what you mean. I always disliked Spurrier. He made rude comments, rubbing it in when he won which was the majority of the games vs. Tennessee. As frustrating and disappointing as losing to him was though, I never felt he or Florida cheated out a win - it was always won on the field. That is not how I felt after the Alabama game this weekend. I feel Saban was in on it or at least knew about it.
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Never? Does Jabar Gaffney in 2000 ring a bell?
 
#13
#13
Volizona said:
I absolutely couldn’t stand Spurrier in the 90s. The reason was pretty clear - he talked a lot of smack and always followed through by embarrassing us. However, I always respected him as a coach and I actually pulled for him a bit when he took over a losing SC program and made them respectable. I feared him, but I never once thought that he was somehow corrupt or cheating. He always earned it on the field. I don’t like Saban either, yes, he always beats us, but as a person, I like him less than Spurrier. I just get the sense that he’s ok with cheating the game a bit as long as he wins. He has to know he gets special treatment from refs and other entities and he can look at himself in the mirror and be ok with it. I’m just not sure the ole ball coach would feel feel the same. I feel like he had pride if winning with his offensive genius and cheating would dilute his accomplishments. What say you all?
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No offense, but that's just nuts. No way no how is Spurrier a better coach. While Alabama produces HS talent, Florida is a much more fertile area. And still Spurrier didn't come close to doing what Saban has done....at multiple schools. No matter the method or character, Saban is the best college coach of all time. No question.
 
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#14
#14
I have seen Alabama get screwed by the refs so I am not buying refs are pro-Alabama. I do think there have been some anti-Tennessee refs or more bad calls against Tennessee. Not sure if it is intentional or not. The lack of holding calls has been happening since at least 2021 and happens a lot, and even worse, in some of our wins versus even this Alabama game.

That being said, I think where Saban has cheated in his career is recruiting. I think Alabama gets protection from the SEC on recruiting. Fulmer reported them and had too much data (along with other reporting groups) for Alabama to get away with it in the 1990s. Georgia Tech literally cited Alabama's dirty recruiting as the reasoning for them leaving the SEC in the 1960s.

Another area that Alabama and Saban have had the advantage with and I brought up in the past is scheduling. Alabama's schedule was historically designed for them to go unbeaten. It had the same formula:

1. Play a tougher OOC game in opener or week 2 but schedule them in a "Neutral" site that was close to Alabama and make sure it was a situation where Alabama had the advantage. The other two games are easy OOC cupcakes in Tuscaloosa. Per #5, sometimes an SEC opponent may come after this grouping if it makes Alabama's schedule easier.

2. Get Arkansas, Ole Miss, or Miss State as first three SEC opponents

3. Play Tennessee next and keep them down on recruiting (You also keep Tennessee down by forcing them to play Florida and Georgia back-to-back weeks prior to Alabama)

4. Get LSU next

5. Cupcake OOC opponent and weaker SEC opponent (if Stronger SEC opponent, like Georgia, move them up between #2 and #3)

6. Get Auburn at the end after play Samford so that you effectively have a bye week

Alabama did not really travel around like great teams in the past and win. 2001 Miami and 2004 USC tend to get more love as National Champion teams than any Alabama team. Notice that no one argues any of the Alabama teams as the greatest teams in CFB history? They still talk about 1995 Nebraska, 2001 Miami, etc.

If Alabama had been forced to play a tougher schedule, they would not have been as successful. They have the early hype OOC game which is usually designed in a manner where Alabama has the advantage and then they spread out their opponents so that they rarely have back-to-back difficult weeks while making some of Alabama's rivals (notably Auburn and Tennessee) play brutal schedules and get beat up prior to playing Alabama.

That being said, Saban is still a heck of a coach despite all of that and it showed this Saturday when Tennessee got out coached in second half.
 
#15
#15
orchidvol said:
I know what you mean. I always disliked Spurrier. He made rude comments, rubbing it in when he won which was the majority of the games vs. Tennessee. As frustrating and disappointing as losing to him was though, I never felt he or Florida cheated out a win - it was always won on the field. That is not how I felt after the Alabama game this weekend. I feel Saban was in on it or at least knew about it.
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When Tennessee lost to Florida I can’t remember ever feeling that the game was reffed one sided. Tennessee may have gotten a bad call here or there. That is part of the game and is generally accepted by everyone. With Alabama it is blatant. Don’t know why but it is.
 
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#16
#16
LouderVol said:
I think any good thoughts to Spurrier are only due to him being gone. Wait a couple years after Saban is gone and you will probably fill similarly about him. Saban is still an active foe, who just beat us. of course you have a more negative impression of him than a guy who has been retired for 5 years, at least.
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Pretty much. Kind of like a person you fought with in high school and hated but you run into them years later you kind of laugh about it all.
 
#17
#17
Spurrier was a great coach but he doesn't get to touch Saban's jock strap. Saban has been far more dominate.

Spurrier did not handle FSU very well and lost to them more than he won. This is why UF only had 1 National Title. Nebraska ripped Florida in 1995, sure Nebraska was great but Saban would not have lost like that at a high level.

Spurrier was also dipping towards the end and had he stayed, his teams would not have been as good in the 2000-2010 range. Both Fulmer and Spurrier also played in a weaker SEC with weaker coaching. By 2000/2001 time frame, programs like Auburn, Georgia, and LSU were starting to get better coaches and upgrade. Alabama did eventually at the end of the decade with Saban although Gene Stallings' Alabama teams were good in the early 1990s (no where near Saban's teams though).
 
#18
#18
Who do you think our former coach learned from? Surely you don't think he just invented it all by himself. Some coaches just don't get caught.

All I hear from Saban these days is whining about this and whining about that. If he is the goat he should be able to adjust to the times.
 
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#19
#19
Spurrier is the better offensive mind. Thats where the comparison ends. Saban is better defensive mind, better recruiter better developer of talent, better motivator and better at working officials. I wont disagree with you though that Saban more likely plays outside of margins than Spurrier. However with each passing decade it seems its more accepted.
 
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#21
#21
orchidvol said:
I know what you mean. I always disliked Spurrier. He made rude comments, rubbing it in when he won which was the majority of the games vs. Tennessee. As frustrating and disappointing as losing to him was though, I never felt he or Florida cheated out a win - it was always won on the field. That is not how I felt after the Alabama game this weekend. I feel Saban was in on it or at least knew about it.
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Remember the Gaffney "catch" in 2000?

 
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#22
#22
orchidvol said:
I know what you mean. I always disliked Spurrier. He made rude comments, rubbing it in when he won which was the majority of the games vs. Tennessee. As frustrating and disappointing as losing to him was though, I never felt he or Florida cheated out a win - it was always won on the field. That is not how I felt after the Alabama game this weekend. I feel Saban was in on it or at least knew about it.
Click to expand...
IMG_1436.jpeg
 
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#23
#23
stolitonic said:
Meh, honestly trying to say Spurrier was "clean" would kind of like saying that Fulmer was "clean".

Two big schools playing at the top of big boy football. There was nobody around who was innocent. It is what it was.

Hell,we tried our best to cheat big time with Pruitt-and failed miserably.
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Phillip was mortified of ruining his legacy with a cheating scandal. Now, did boosters do their thing? Sure. When starting running backs are calling an assistant coach in the middle night saying if he don’t bring them a sack of tacos that they are about to do something stupid….then there was probably not a whole lot of cheating going on.
 
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