Stability? It's more about the coaches.

[Dougie_D]

I know Butch Jones probably won't fire/lay off any of his associates but I don't think stability is needed when things are not going your way.

Assistant coaches leave all the time. Even top O.C and D.C's .

Look at Florida State. You think their Defense dropped when Stoops went to Kentucky? First year Jeremy Pruitt seems to be doing a heck of a job. Where did he come from? Oh...that's right, Alabama. And this was his first DC position in the college ranks.

Saban/Alabama and most coaches win by HIRING the best of the best EARLY on.

A head coach can be a great X/O guy. A great recruiter. But he has to be the BEST when assembling your staff and be able to evaluate them as well. I believe Saban, Les, and even Urban Myers are the best when assembling staffers. Don't be surprised if Saban does some shuffling for a SP coach.

Sunseri should have NEVER been a DC. At least not at TN. He's strictly an assistant. Dooley should have never been a coach. He's strictly an assistant.

 

[DiderotsGhost]

I'd say both are important. Losing a coach or two here and there doesn't undermine stability. Losing an entire staff (or a large chunk of it) does. At the same time, the quality of coaches is extremely important.

 

[Coug]

And the point of your thread is....????

 

[jaxvol69]

And the point of your thread is....????

Stay off drugs

 

[Dougie_D]

My point is "stability" shouldn't be an excuse to NOT adjust your coaching staff.
We can keep our schemes. Our OC and DC, but I believe we need help in TE, special teams, o-line, d-line, QB, secondary.
We need shuffling for sure.

 

[phowell23]

I know Butch Jones probably won't fire/lay off any of his associates but I don't think stability is needed when things are not going your way.

Assistant coaches leave all the time. Even top O.C and D.C's .

Look at Florida State. You think their Defense dropped when Stoops went to Kentucky? First year Jeremy Pruitt seems to be doing a heck of a job. Where did he come from? Oh...that's right, Alabama. And this was his first DC position in the college ranks.

Saban/Alabama and most coaches win by HIRING the best of the best EARLY on.

A head coach can be a great X/O guy. A great recruiter. But he has to be the BEST when assembling your staff and be able to evaluate them as well. I believe Saban, Les, and even Urban Myers are the best when assembling staffers. Don't be surprised if Saban does some shuffling for a SP coach.

Sunseri should have NEVER been a DC. At least not at TN. He's strictly an assistant. Dooley should have never been a coach. He's strictly an assistant.

Just had a flash back of some Sunseri :birgits_giggle:

 

[MFL]

seems to be 50 percent

 

[VOLorNuttin]

I know Butch Jones probably won't fire/lay off any of his associates but I don't think stability is needed when things are not going your way.

Assistant coaches leave all the time. Even top O.C and D.C's .

Look at Florida State. You think their Defense dropped when Stoops went to Kentucky? First year Jeremy Pruitt seems to be doing a heck of a job. Where did he come from? Oh...that's right, Alabama. And this was his first DC position in the college ranks.

Saban/Alabama and most coaches win by HIRING the best of the best EARLY on.

A head coach can be a great X/O guy. A great recruiter. But he has to be the BEST when assembling your staff and be able to evaluate them as well. I believe Saban, Les, and even Urban Myers are the best when assembling staffers. Don't be surprised if Saban does some shuffling for a SP coach.

Sunseri should have NEVER been a DC. At least not at TN. He's strictly an assistant. Dooley should have never been a coach. He's strictly an assistant.

I agree...this team needs stability, but there are MUCH better OC's and DC's out there, and whom CBJ could hire....IF he wanted to. But he doesn't see the inability to stop the run or contain mobile QB's, in THIS defense. He's looking back on Janzek doing a decent enough job at Cincinnati to help them win a lot of games.

But I would contend that getting the best DC you could possibly hire, can make his teams not only win a lot of games, but take it to the next level and win championships. Sure, it takes lots of talent, but Janzek had far more talent on this squad than what it looked like. This defense looked utterly helpless too many times during the year.

I'd rather have a coach whose resume says they can coach, than go into next year with a question mark.

 

[golf437]

I agree...this team needs stability, but there are MUCH better OC's and DC's out there, and whom CBJ could hire....IF he wanted to. But he doesn't see the inability to stop the run or contain mobile QB's, in THIS defense. He's looking back on Janzek doing a decent enough job at Cincinnati to help them win a lot of games.

But I would contend that getting the best DC you could possibly hire, can make his teams not only win a lot of games, but take it to the next level and win championships. Sure, it takes lots of talent, but Janzek had far more talent on this squad than what it looked like. This defense looked utterly helpless too many times during the year.

I'd rather have a coach whose resume says they can coach, than go into next year with a question mark.

Your statement about far more talent is not true.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

Your statement about far more talent is not true.

4* Corey Miller
4* Jaq Smith
4* Dan McCullers
4* Danny OBrien
4* Mo Couch (didn't play much of season, but still played)
4* AJ Johnson
4* McNeil
4* Byron Moore
4* Justin Coleman

And two of our best players were only 3* recruits (Sutton and Randolph...who was the GA Gatorade defensive Player of the Year)

...No talent, eh? :loco:

 

[Dragon18]

My point is "stability" shouldn't be an excuse to NOT adjust your coaching staff.
We can keep our schemes. Our OC and DC, but I believe we need help in TE, special teams, o-line, d-line, QB, secondary.
We need shuffling for sure.

This post and your OP are passing off as fact that which at best is mere speculation. In your OP you mentioned superior talent??? Where is this superior talent you speak of? It is simply not true that UT has superior talent to anyone other than Kensucky. Did we finish higher in recruiting? Yes, but that means nothing to being able to play at the next level if that talent is not developed from the moment they step on campus.

Once you accept the reality that we aren't as talented as the other teams in the SEC, the premise of your argument to get rid of assistants and coordinators is specious at best. I am NOT saying these guys are definitely the coordinators we need, but we have no way of knowing until the talent pool is greater. Football is a game that requires individuals to win their individual matchups. When this doesn't happen it doesn't matter what scheme you run, the team will have failure points that are easily exploited. Just give it another year or two before you start this talk. eace2:

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

4* Corey Miller
4* Jaq Smith
4* Dan McCullers
4* Danny OBrien
4* Mo Couch (didn't play much of season, but still played)
4* AJ Johnson
4* McNeil
4* Byron Moore
4* Justin Coleman

And two of our best players were only 3* recruits (Sutton and Randolph...who was the GA Gatorade defensive Player of the Year)

...No talent, eh? :loco:

These players have been through 3 DCs in 3 years. That means they have been taught 3 different ways in three years instead of being able to build on what they've learned the previous year.

Secondly, this is the sec and the starters don't play the entire game. The backups are crucial to overall success and we simply have no good back ups. I heard Danielson say last night Auburn was rotating 10 players on their d-line. When is the last time we could do that? I can't even remember.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

This post and your OP are passing off as fact that which at best is mere speculation. In your OP you mentioned superior talent??? Where is this superior talent you speak of? It is simply not true that UT has superior talent to anyone other than Kensucky. Did we finish higher in recruiting? Yes, but that means nothing to being able to play at the next level if that talent is not developed from the moment they step on campus.

Once you accept the reality that we aren't as talented as the other teams in the SEC, the premise of your argument to get rid of assistants and coordinators is specious at best. I am NOT saying these guys are definitely the coordinators we need, but we have no way of knowing until the talent pool is greater. Football is a game that requires individuals to win their individual matchups. When this doesn't happen it doesn't matter what scheme you run, the team will have failure points that are easily exploited. Just give it another year or two before you start this talk. eace2:

We had MUCH, MUCH more talent, across the board, than Vandy. We've beaten them on the recruiting trail even in our darkest of seasons...yet goobers like yourself turn a blind eye to this FACT, and just presume it's talent...rather than coaching.

Funny how that tune ALWAYS changes the instant the coaches are no longer part of the program. Suddenly, as if by magic, they suck...and didn't develop the talent on hand. People always point to Bamer having top 5 classes every year, and use that as a benchmark for a team's success. But even when we have 2/3's of our defense stocked with 4* talent, we don't have the talent we need to compete against....VANDY? Who in the f__k are you kidding?

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

We had MUCH, MUCH more talent, across the board, than Vandy. We've beaten them on the recruiting trail even in our darkest of seasons...yet goobers like yourself turn a blind eye to this FACT, and just presume it's talent...rather than coaching.

Funny how that tune ALWAYS changes the instant the coaches are no longer part of the program. Suddenly, as if by magic, they suck...and didn't develop the talent on hand. People always point to Bamer having top 5 classes every year, and use that as a benchmark for a team's success. But even when we have 2/3's of our defense stocked with 4* talent, we don't have the talent we need to compete against....VANDY? Who in the f__k are you kidding?

And yet..our qb is a freshman with a pathetic offwr list and our best receiver is our 3rd string running back. Yeah. Were stacked!

 

[Dragon18]

We had MUCH, MUCH more talent, across the board, than Vandy. We've beaten them on the recruiting trail even in our darkest of seasons...yet goobers like yourself turn a blind eye to this FACT, and just presume it's talent...rather than coaching.

Funny how that tune ALWAYS changes the instant the coaches are no longer part of the program. Suddenly, as if by magic, they suck...and didn't develop the talent on hand. People always point to Bamer having top 5 classes every year, and use that as a benchmark for a team's success. But even when we have 2/3's of our defense stocked with 4* talent, we don't have the talent we need to compete against....VANDY? Who in the f__k are you kidding?

Listen... You don't know what your talking about. Recruiting ratings are only a starting point for players and is only a gauge of what they COULD become with proper development and being fit into a proper system. There are so many reasons that our recruiting classes that were rated higher didn't churn out a talented team that it would take the entire Dooley era to write it down. Don't get Butthurt because someone breaks down your argument and start getting personal. We were not a talented team this year. Stay in your hole and deny that for as much as you want but it will not change that reality. So again, it's too early to start this kind of talk. eace2:

Edit: BTW, I promise your tone would be different if you were in front of me rather than behind your keyboard. Civility is a good thing. eace2:

 

[VOLorNuttin]

These players have been through 3 DCs in 3 years. That means they have been taught 3 different ways in three years instead of being able to build on what they've learned the previous year.

Secondly, this is the sec and the starters don't play the entire game. The backups are crucial to overall success and we simply have no good back ups. I heard Danielson say last night Auburn was rotating 10 players on their d-line. When is the last time we could do that? I can't even remember.

Sounds like some wicked backpeddling going on, now. Just a moment ago, it was "we simply don't have the talent." When faced with the actual FACTS...it shifts to but, but, but .....but what? Either we have talent and they aren't being coached, or we have no talent and they are.

I just showed a list PROVING that there IS indeed a TON of talent on this roster. Like many teams, we may not be as deep in some spots as we are in others, but that's not uncommon. Only teams like Bama and LSU, who have top 5 classes every year, can be stocked at every position.

You mention Danielson saying that Auburn rotates about 10 on the DL. Uh...that's about how much ANY team rotates. We have Vareen and Walls behind Miller and Smith. Saulsberry and Obrien behind McCullers and Hood. Auburn has done better recruiting on the DL than we have, lately...but some of that is the fact that Malzahn reeled in a PROVEN SEC DC, in Ellis Johnson. Butch had the opportunity to hire Johnson after he got fired from his HC gig at So. Miss...about the same time our HC search was under way.

They also lured R. Garner (long time ace recruiter in the SEC, and former coach here). We were in the finalists for 5* DE Carl Lawson (who made the game saving TFL against Bamer yesterday)...but Butch never lived up to his public promise to hire THE BEST STAFF IN THE COUNTRY. Janzek is not highly regarded as a DC, nor is Bajakian. But Butch decided he'd go with loyalty over quality...and told a bold-faced lie in the process.

Nevertheless, we don't have to have THAT level of talent to be competitive in the SEC. Heck, just look at Mizzou. They aren't loaded with 4*'s across the board. We have about as much talent as TAM has, and we've out-ranked them in recruiting each year, except this most recent class.

Wilcox did better in his first season as DC, under Dooley, of all coaches, and with far less talent and depth.

 

[fade route]

4* Corey Miller
4* Jaq Smith
4* Dan McCullers
4* Danny OBrien
4* Mo Couch (didn't play much of season, but still played)
4* AJ Johnson
4* McNeil
4* Byron Moore
4* Justin Coleman

And two of our best players were only 3* recruits (Sutton and Randolph...who was the GA Gatorade defensive Player of the Year)

...No talent, eh? :loco:

Yes, and if you re-ranked them according to their production at UT, AJ would be he only 4* in the group. Stars are only meant to indicate potential.

 

[fade route]

Sounds like some wicked backpeddling going on, now. Just a moment ago, it was "we simply don't have the talent." When faced with the actual FACTS...it shifts to but, but, but .....but what? Either we have talent and they aren't being coached, or we have no talent and they are.

I just showed a list PROVING that there IS indeed a TON of talent on this roster. Like many teams, we may not be as deep in some spots as we are in others, but that's not uncommon. Only teams like Bama and LSU, who have top 5 classes every year, can be stocked at every position.

You mention Danielson saying that Auburn rotates about 10 on the DL. Uh...that's about how much ANY team rotates. We have Vareen and Walls behind Miller and Smith. Saulsberry and Obrien behind McCullers and Hood. Auburn has done better recruiting on the DL than we have, lately...but some of that is the fact that Malzahn reeled in a PROVEN SEC DC, in Ellis Johnson. Butch had the opportunity to hire Johnson after he got fired from his HC gig at So. Miss...about the same time our HC search was under way.

They also lured R. Garner (long time ace recruiter in the SEC, and former coach here). We were in the finalists for 5* DE Carl Lawson (who made the game saving TFL against Bamer yesterday)...but Butch never lived up to his public promise to hire THE BEST STAFF IN THE COUNTRY. Janzek is not highly regarded as a DC, nor is Bajakian. But Butch decided he'd go with loyalty over quality...and told a bold-faced lie in the process.

Nevertheless, we don't have to have THAT level of talent to be competitive in the SEC. Heck, just look at Mizzou. They aren't loaded with 4*'s across the board. We have about as much talent as TAM has, and we've out-ranked them in recruiting each year, except this most recent class.

Wilcox did better in his first season as DC, under Dooley, of all coaches, and with far less talent and depth.

So we and A&M have the same level of talent? Laughable.

 

[VolFanNC09]

My point is "stability" shouldn't be an excuse to NOT adjust your coaching staff.
We can keep our schemes. Our OC and DC, but I believe we need help in TE, special teams, o-line, d-line, QB, secondary.
We need shuffling for sure.

Maybe we need shuffling or maybe we need faster players who can tackle in space and maybe we need more depth.

Unless there is an absolute home run hire for the positions, I would take stability for another year to see how they do in year two in the system before I run around chasing off coaches. Would be nice having the same coordinators for two years in a row for a change.

Florida state benefitted from 4 years of top 5 recruiting in the same system before their DC left.

 

[VolFanNC09]

Sounds like some wicked backpeddling going on, now. Just a moment ago, it was "we simply don't have the talent." When faced with the actual FACTS...it shifts to but, but, but .....but what? Either we have talent and they aren't being coached, or we have no talent and they are.

I just showed a list PROVING that there IS indeed a TON of talent on this roster. Like many teams, we may not be as deep in some spots as we are in others, but that's not uncommon. Only teams like Bama and LSU, who have top 5 classes every year, can be stocked at every position.

You mention Danielson saying that Auburn rotates about 10 on the DL. Uh...that's about how much ANY team rotates. We have Vareen and Walls behind Miller and Smith. Saulsberry and Obrien behind McCullers and Hood. Auburn has done better recruiting on the DL than we have, lately...but some of that is the fact that Malzahn reeled in a PROVEN SEC DC, in Ellis Johnson. Butch had the opportunity to hire Johnson after he got fired from his HC gig at So. Miss...about the same time our HC search was under way.

They also lured R. Garner (long time ace recruiter in the SEC, and former coach here). We were in the finalists for 5* DE Carl Lawson (who made the game saving TFL against Bamer yesterday)...but Butch never lived up to his public promise to hire THE BEST STAFF IN THE COUNTRY. Janzek is not highly regarded as a DC, nor is Bajakian. But Butch decided he'd go with loyalty over quality...and told a bold-faced lie in the process.

Nevertheless, we don't have to have THAT level of talent to be competitive in the SEC. Heck, just look at Mizzou. They aren't loaded with 4*'s across the board. We have about as much talent as TAM has, and we've out-ranked them in recruiting each year, except this most recent class.

Wilcox did better in his first season as DC, under Dooley, of all coaches, and with far less talent and depth.

We did have higher ranked classes, but we also lost almost the entire Kiffiin class. Because of coaching changes and stability issues our classes would have ranked toward the bottom of the SEC if you judge by who actually was still in the roster this year.

Mizzou benefitted from being in the same system for multiple years. A&m got lucky with a great college QB. Take away Manziel and A&m has a losing record this year.

 

[volfan4evr]

IMO, our coaching staff underachieved. Team 117 was better than what their record indicated. The team did not get better as the season went forward, but seemed to hit a high water mark, then went backwards again. Don't know why, but it's just my opinion.

If CBJ is going to hang around here for the long term, the coaching staff has to do a better job of coaching the players up. Inexperience and injuries have a big part of not improving, so it's not entirely on the coaching staff. A question that keeps popping up is did each individual player improve as this year went on?

 

[fade route]

IMO, our coaching staff underachieved. Team 117 was better than what their record indicated. The team did not get better as the season went forward, but seemed to hit a high water mark, then went backwards again. Don't know why, but it's just my opinion.

If CBJ is going to hang around here for the long term, the coaching staff has to do a better job of coaching the players up. Inexperience and injuries have a big part of not improving, so it's not entirely on the coaching staff. A question that keeps popping up is did each individual player improve as this year went on?

I'm sure playing the #3 and #4 ranked teams in the BCS back to back had something to do with our perceived going backwards. Can't understand why people don't get this.

 

[GlockVol]

Has been refreshing this year to not hear about players getting into off the field trouble during the season with the exception of the Mo Couch situation which occcurred earlier. I'm sure every coach hounds his players about staying out of trouble but it seems some nitwit always decides to rob a store or resist arrest. Don't know why we have been so fortunate this year, maybe the Volympics and the peer pressure that goes with it helped but I think we can all agree that we hope that continues at least, regardless of who the coaches are.

 

[Tokeup69]

We had MUCH, MUCH more talent, across the board, than Vandy. We've beaten them on the recruiting trail even in our darkest of seasons...yet goobers like yourself turn a blind eye to this FACT, and just presume it's talent...rather than coaching.

Funny how that tune ALWAYS changes the instant the coaches are no longer part of the program. Suddenly, as if by magic, they suck...and didn't develop the talent on hand. People always point to Bamer having top 5 classes every year, and use that as a benchmark for a team's success. But even when we have 2/3's of our defense stocked with 4* talent, we don't have the talent we need to compete against....VANDY? Who in the f__k are you kidding?

your right it does have to do with coaching but it's not on butch jones he's out there trying to teach Dooley's team how to play football...all dooley knows is how to lose he's the worst coach to ever step foot on neyland!! AND LAST TIME I CHECKED STARS DONT MEAN S*** a no star can out play a 4-5 star anyday we need players who want to fight for it we lacked that big time with dooley but I saw signs of that with butch jones just give it f****** TIME IT's His First Year

 

[82_VOL_83]

DC is on the hot seat. Haven't seen the OC implement CBJ's offense yet. Neither Coordinator has enough talent to evaluate their talent.