State Pension funds and surplus

[NEO]

So I was reading an article about state debt due to pension funds. I went down this rabbit hole because Ohio property taxes really piss me off and I couldn’t understand why OH is so much higher than TN.

It appears TN has the least amount of unfunded pension debt in the country since 2016 as in 2013 they went to a hybrid pension format that involves a 401k mix while states like OH and NJ have a massive unfunded pension ratio and therefore cannot lower property taxes etc and this is what is causing the major boom in TN right now.

91 percent of pension In TN are funded while only 36 are funded in IL, as an example.

My question is why is TN able to run its state with a consistent surplus so much better than other high taxed states when people in TN aren’t paying their fair share in any form of property or state income taxes?

TN, Fl, Tx all have atleast a 4 percent surplus but states like IL are 3 percent negative and the great state of California is at 0.

 

[VolStrom]

So I was reading an article about state debt due to pension funds. I went down this rabbit hole because Ohio property taxes really piss me off and I couldn’t understand why OH is so much higher than TN.

It appears TN has the least amount of unfunded pension debt in the country since 2016 as in 2013 they went to a hybrid pension format that involves a 401k mix while states like OH and NJ have a massive unfunded pension ratio and therefore cannot lower property taxes etc and this is what is causing the major boom in TN right now.

91 percent of pension In TN are funded while only 36 are funded in IL, as an example.

My question is why is TN able to run its state with a consistent surplus so much better than other high taxed states when people in TN aren’t paying their fair share in any form of property or state income taxes?

TN, Fl, Tx all have atleast a 4 percent surplus but states like IL are 3 percent negative and the great state of California is at 0.

What is my fair share of your taxes?

 

[AshG]

Pensions for public employees were the way states were able to attract individuals from higher paying jobs to lower paying jobs, by providing them with a stable retirement that was largely shielded from the volatility of Wall Street.

I paid into mine and am fully vested in the state of Tennessee.

It's not your money that will help me eat when I retire at 80.

 

[hog88]

Pensions for public employees were the way states were able to attract individuals from higher paying jobs to lower paying jobs, by providing them with a stable retirement that was largely shielded from the volatility of Wall Street.

I paid into mine and am fully vested in the state of Tennessee.

It's not your money that will help me eat when I retire at 80.

Then states/cities/counties and the fed started raising employee wages to compete with the private sector but many retained their pension model.

 

[NEO]

What is my fair share of your taxes?

you have paid enough once I don’t have to pay for a single thing.

 

[NEO]

Then states/cities/counties and the fed started raising employee wages to compete with the private sector but many retained their pension model.

Do you think this was due to bureaucracy or just bad foresight?

TN clearly got out in front of this issue much earlier than others which makes me curious on the whys.

 

[VolStrom]

you have paid enough once I don’t have to pay for a single thing.

I'm confused. Why did you say that people in Tennessee aren't paying their fair share of property or state income taxes? What does what I pay in taxes in TN have to do with what IL or OH or NJ have to pay to fund their state pensions?

 

[NEO]

I'm confused. Why did you say that people in Tennessee aren't paying their fair share of property or state income taxes? What does what I pay in taxes in TN have to do with what IL or OH or NJ have to pay to fund their state pensions?

I am honestly being facetious here and speaking of all taxes including no state income tax, city tax, low property taxes compared to other states that in the hole who tax their citizens to death.

It appears it’s not a tax issue after all but a management system that is handling the tax revenue very poorly in many states.

 

[landscapingvol]

I am in a pension funded retirement system but it isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be. I pay in roughly 350$ a month and will draw 60% of my highest two salary years after 30 years in the system which isn’t bad but if you don’t complete your 30 years you get hammered.

 

[VolStrom]

I am honestly being facetious here and speaking of all taxes including no state income tax, city tax, low property taxes compared to other states that in the hole who tax their citizens to death.

It appears it’s not a tax issue after all but a management system that is handling the tax revenue very poorly in many states.

Well dammit you should have to me to turn on my sarcasm detector. Mine breaks a lot.

 

[NEO]

In Oh, I pay a school tax, flat city tax, state tax and my property tax is almost double my TN property tax. I understand some issues such as weather will cause property tax to be slightly higher but not double. It just appears it is much less a tax issue than a poor management issue when states like TN operate in the black regularly with little taxes.

 

[hog88]

Do you think this was due to bureaucracy or just bad foresight?

TN clearly got out in front of this issue much earlier than others which makes me curious on the whys.

Both.

TN has elected governors with business backgrounds since the late 80s instead of career politicians and lawyers. I think the same holds true for the legislature.

 

[VolStrom]

In Oh, I pay a school tax, flat city tax, state tax and my property tax is almost double my TN property tax. I understand some issues such as weather will cause property tax to be slightly higher but not double. It just appears it is much less a tax issue than a poor management issue when states like TN operate in the black regularly with little taxes.

The problem with states like Ohio and Michigan is that they were living high off the manufacturing explosion after WW2 and union wages they thought would live forever. Money flowed free and businesses were booming and no one saw the inevitable demise of the excesses of union fueled companies. Unfortunately the government was too stupid and never lowered the standard of living (benefits) for its own employees and now someone has to pay the piper.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

The problem with states like Ohio and Michigan is that they were living high off the manufacturing explosion after WW2 and union wages they thought would live forever. Money flowed free and businesses were booming and no one saw the inevitable demise of the excesses of union fueled companies. Unfortunately the government was too stupid and never lowered the standard of living (benefits) for its own employees and now someone has to pay the piper.

Imagine thinking the government is going to cut benefits for government employees. They will ride those bennies into hell, and then beg the feds to bail them out.

 

[Rickyvol77]

So I was reading an article about state debt due to pension funds. I went down this rabbit hole because Ohio property taxes really piss me off and I couldn’t understand why OH is so much higher than TN.

It appears TN has the least amount of unfunded pension debt in the country since 2016 as in 2013 they went to a hybrid pension format that involves a 401k mix while states like OH and NJ have a massive unfunded pension ratio and therefore cannot lower property taxes etc and this is what is causing the major boom in TN right now.

91 percent of pension In TN are funded while only 36 are funded in IL, as an example.

My question is why is TN able to run its state with a consistent surplus so much better than other high taxed states when people in TN aren’t paying their fair share in any form of property or state income taxes?

TN, Fl, Tx all have atleast a 4 percent surplus but states like IL are 3 percent negative and the great state of California is at 0.

Because states with strong liberal or union backgrounds with large Democratic cities continue to suffer with their lack of economic foresight

 

[AM64]

The problem with states like Ohio and Michigan is that they were living high off the manufacturing explosion after WW2 and union wages they thought would live forever. Money flowed free and businesses were booming and no one saw the inevitable demise of the excesses of union fueled companies. Unfortunately the government was too stupid and never lowered the standard of living (benefits) for its own employees and now someone has to pay the piper.

We believe in the law of supply and demand for a lot of things, but wages isn't one of them. Somehow in spite of it all, wages are always supposed to increase regardless of supply and demand. As far as I can see, there are three major drivers for that - expectations, unions, and government.

Unions are nothing more than the use of mob rule to set demands.

Government is the real root of most problems from minimum wage, to inept fiscal management, to rulings that favor unions, to many unreasonable regulatory demands. One example on the wage front: companies are bound by antitrust rulings that keep one from supporting another during strikes for higher benefits; unions freely use income from non striking workers to support striking workers and they can rely on other unions to support them - no antitrust issues even though unions are simply corporations supplying labor. Perhaps as you point out the issue has a lot to do with predominance of union labor (including public service unions) and the state's union support. Not that unions and their organized crime connections might in any way influence politicians.

 

[NEO]

The problem with states like Ohio and Michigan is that they were living high off the manufacturing explosion after WW2 and union wages they thought would live forever. Money flowed free and businesses were booming and no one saw the inevitable demise of the excesses of union fueled companies. Unfortunately the government was too stupid and never lowered the standard of living (benefits) for its own employees and now someone has to pay the piper.

My realtor said the exact same thing.

Said TN was set for the future with healthcare and tech and OH is set for the past with manufacturing.

I have always lived in the Columbus area and manufacturing was just not a thought there but the rest of the state it is.

 

[SuzyVol]

Pensions for public employees were the way states were able to attract individuals from higher paying jobs to lower paying jobs, by providing them with a stable retirement that was largely shielded from the volatility of Wall Street.

I paid into mine and am fully vested in the state of Tennessee.

It's not your money that will help me eat when I retire at 80.

Your plan is funded entirely by employee contributions?