States Rights rise again....

#6
#6
I am not saying that a new civil war is on the horizon but it does look as though that the states are tired of taking the fed govt's crap and they seem to be trying to draw a line in the sand, Tn is even making steps to follow the other states mentioned it should come to pass within a month or two.
 
#8
#8
My God it would be painful but a good revolution would this make for a better world. Our system has become too corrupt on both parties. I am not one of the conspiracy theorist but I could see it happening in my lifetime.
 
#9
#9
If the states really wanted to reaffirm their sovereignty, though, they would simply remove the popular vote from the process of appointed Senators and the President. Novel concept and I can't for the life of me think of the group of men who came up with such a concept...I'll have to get back to everyone on that.

A group of men who made some monumental decisions about 220 years ago??? Nope, drawing a blank.
 
#11
#11
The States,however are bound by the Constitution to the Judaical process.End of story.

The States are the ones who created the federal government, not the other way around. If the Federal government stuck only to the powers granted to it in Article I, Section 8 there wouldn't be a problem.
 
#15
#15
Never the less his premise has judicial validity.Based on the content in this article.

Even before Sen. John Kerry conceded defeat in the presidential election, some bitter blue-staters had begun joking about the possibility of seceding from red-state America. Which makes you wonder: Are there any provisions in U.S. law for a state to opt out of the Union?


No. But the legal situation wasn't always so clear cut. Before the Civil War, the legality of secession was an open question, and Southerners would frequently threaten that their states might ditch the fledgling nation. The legal argument, framed eloquently in the 1830 Senate debate between Daniel Webster and Robert Hayne, centered on the Constitution: Was it merely a treaty among the many states? Or was it the founding document of a singular country, a compact of the "people" cited in its opening clause? This legal argument, among other things, eventually begat the Civil War, and since it ended, scholars have agreed that the Constitution grants no right of secession.


Legal experts say that the "treaty" interpretation remains dead today, especially since, in the aftermath of the Civil War, the United States adopted the 14th Amendment, which included a definition of national citizenship, something conspicuously absent from the original. (Previously, citizenship had been defined exclusively by the states.) Today, the Supreme Court frowns on states conducting their own foreign policy and even ardent members of states' rights groups agree that the states have no right to withdraw from the Union.


Elsewhere in the world, however, secession is a live issue, and many democracies are at least somewhat open to it. Québec has long flirted with secession from Canada, for example, and the European Union's draft constitution provides a mechanism for states to leave it.



Conceivably, the United States could amend its Constitution to include a similar process, but constitutional experts have not seriously examined whether it would be legally possible. Alternatively, international law would permit the United States to cede some states to another sovereign nation—say, Canada—through a treaty, but it is unclear if simple ratification by the Senate would pass constitutional muster.


Despite these formidable obstacles, there are nevertheless secessionist movements of various levels of seriousness in the United States: Residents in Alaska, Hawaii, and Texas have tried with some fanfare but little success to make their cases in recent years. Meanwhile, in Washington, Oregon, and British Columbia, there are groups that seek independence from the United States and Canada and hope to form the Republic of Cascadia.


Next question?

Explainer thanks Bruce Ackerman of the Yale Law School and Lawrence Tribe of the Harvard Law School.
Sam Schechner is a writer in New York.

The content of the article is extremely weak, at best.
 
#16
#16
the consitiution has the power over the states, however the states give the constitution power. this mass expanse of the federal government can be traced back to the New Deal,
 
#17
#17
Good for the states doing this, even if only for show. Patrick Henry has to be rolling over in his grave when seeing what the federal government has become.
 
#19
#19
The third paragraph,"extremely weak at best"?


The 14th Amendment is a historically powerful tool!
Section 1 of the 14th Amendment is still open to a large amount of discretion, especially as it concerns the the freedom of a state to secede.
 
#20
#20
This has been something at the bottom of my mind now since before the 2004 elections. I really think America is getting more and more divided than ever before and I think it is all but inevitable at this point. The difference in culture between a California or New York and from "Fly Over" country is very stark at times. And both sides are resentful if the other has the power to dictate what is good for the whole country. I would much rather have a Phil Bredesen decide laws over me than a Nanci Pelosi. Short Story Long of it: I really think this is inevitable, when I have no idea, but I do believe this will come to life at one point in the future.
 
#21
#21
The culture gap is no larger now than it was at the turn of the 19th Century. If anything, the culture gap is far narrower. The difference lies comes from the continual usurpation of power from the Federal Gov't.

The brilliance of a Republic is that State A and State B can be polar opposites, yet still come together under a federal umbrella for certain issues. These issues should be extremely limited though.
 
#22
#22
The culture gap is no larger now than it was at the turn of the 19th Century. If anything, the culture gap is far narrower. The difference lies comes from the continual usurpation of power from the Federal Gov't.

The brilliance of a Republic is that State A and State B can be polar opposites, yet still come together under a federal umbrella for certain issues. These issues should be extremely limited though.

Bingo and that is how it should be for 90% of the laws and rules, but the way it is now, most of our laws come from the Federal Government. I don't care if California wants to ban all guns from its citezens, unionize each and every company, and make it a punishable offense to set your thermostat lower than 75 degrees in the summer. As long as that law doesn't carry over here. To me the only roles of the Federal Government is National Security, National Infrastructure (roads, power grid), and to be a co-op of sorts for natural disasters. The rest should be in the States' hands.
 
#23
#23
To me the only roles of the Federal Government is National Security, National Infrastructure (roads, power grid), and to be a co-op of sorts for natural disasters. The rest should be in the States' hands.


Agree 110%!!!! Our founding father would not understand what the federal govt has turned into. This is not what they had a revolution for.
 
#24
#24
We had a recent thread on this topic.

The reason I said it was surprising for Washington State to do this is because Washington was one of the states targeted back in the sixties by young leftist elitists to infiltrate and try to steer the areas toward socialism working within the legal system.

Surprising too that leftist crazy California would too but maybe people are finally waking up.
 
#25
#25
Agree 110%!!!! Our founding father would not understand what the federal govt has turned into. This is not what they had a revolution for.

Preamble to the Declaration of Independence:

Governments exist to support the rights of men. Governments exist only through the power of the people that they represent. When a government fails to grant rights to the people and removes the involvement of the people, the people have the right to change their government in a way that will allow for their unalienable rights to be protected. Governments should not be overthrown for trivial reasons; it is not typical for people to change a system that they are accustomed to. However, when the people have suffered many abuses under the control of a totalitarian leader, they not only have the right but the duty to overthrow that government.

-----------------------------------

From my files:

ECO–TOTALITARIANISM

“What has always made the state a hell on earth has been precisely that man has tried to make it his heaven.” [1]

The cruelest and most oppressive regimes throughout history have merged man-made religion with the power of the state. The high priests of Judea, Annas and Caiaphas, were instrumental in manipulating Pontius Pilate, a Roman ruler, to accomplish the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

In this century, communism and Nazism have been hallmarks of oppression and untold suffering. These governments used a pseu*do–science to give a veneer of respectability to ideological beliefs and provide a ‘rational’ basis for their acceptance.

The Nazis (National Socialists) claimed that the science of genetics proved the Aryan race to have superior abilities.

The communists claimed that “scientific socialism” (Marx*ism–Leninism) would end poverty and exploitation of man by his fellow man.

The state religion in each case offered an escape from the manufactured ‘enemy’ by establishing a counterfeit moral ideal upon which tyrannical actions could be based. This counterfeit moral basis conceals the real evil about to be committed. [2] These historical examples recall the philosopher George Santayana’s maxim, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

Communism

The communists essentially said, “Poverty is bad. We are opposed to poverty and want to eliminate it. To do this, we must be given the power to violate your individual rights. We are practicing the moral ideal by helping others. Trust us.”

Nazism

The Nazis’ message was only slightly different. They said, “The destruction of Germany is bad. We are opposed to this destruction and wish to stop it. To do this, we must be given the power to violate your individual rights. We are practicing the moral ideal by helping others. Trust us.”

These state religions had common characteristics:

1. A position is taken that nobody will disagree with, i.e., poverty is bad or national destruction is bad. There is absolutely no political risk in taking these positions, they are uncontroversial and require no change in opinion by the people.

2. A solution to the uncontroversial problem is offered, if only the public will grant the group coming to power the authority to violate individual rights.

3. Each predicted some kind of apocalyptic scenario would occur if the people did not listen to them. The Nazis predicted that a wealthy Jewish elite would destroy the purity of the German race and nation.

The communists said that the forces of American imperialism would overrun mother Russia. In each instance, these state religions fostered an intense hatred toward the perceived enemy of the state.

4. Each movement justifies the violation of individual rights on the morality of altruism, i.e., doing ‘good’ (as the state defines ‘good’) to others is the only standard for correct behavior. Contrast this with the standard for right behavior in Matthew 22:37–38, “Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

This is the first and great commandment.” Making ‘doing good’ to someone or something the only standard for correctness enabled these tyrannies, and the environmental party, to come to power. The people must be persuaded to recognize this counterfeit moral ideal. If they do not, they may object to the intrusion of the state because of higher princi*ples—for example, their Constitu*tional rights.

Altruism [M1] as a moral ideal means that you can deny the self–interest (individual rights) of yourself or of others in the name of ‘doing good.’ Thus, those who claim that they were harmed by the commu*nists or the Nazis can be labeled as selfish and opposing the moral ideal (’doing good’) of the state. The state can thus treat them without regard to their individual rights (as indeed they were). It is the motivation that must be ascertained. Service to others out of love and a genuine concern for human welfare is honorable. ‘Doing good’ to
animals and plants at the expense of human welfare is devilish.

5. Each ideology resulted in millions of deaths and the enslavement of millions more (World War II, Stalinist purges, etc.)

These ideologies worked by using a bit of truth, a ‘good cause,’ to which is attached an evil and devilish ideology. This is similar to a worm on a hook. Those who swallowed the communist and Nazi ‘worm on a hook’ experienced great suffering and often death.

Environmentalism

Now compare the above description of communism and Nazism to environmentalism. The message of the environmental party is very similar: “Pollution is bad. We are opposed to pollution and want to eliminate it. To do this, we must be given the power to violate your individual rights. We are practicing the moral ideal by helping others. Trust us, we’ll do it right this time.”

The moral ideal of ‘doing good’ is now directed at animals, insects, trees, and plants rather than people. Under communism and Nazism they were directed at a specific group of people (the working class and the German race, respectively).

The familiar apocalyptic predictions are now framed so that the entire biosphere is up for grabs, i.e., unless we adopt the socialist solutions proposed by theco-religion the very future of the earth is ‘in the balance.’ The state–sponsored hatred used by the communist and Nazi regimes is now directed at all humans.

For example, many members of the Green Church want to control human population by state coercion (as Communist China now practices). Environmentalism is an ideological sister to the tyrannies of Hitler and of communism. However, the human tragedy will be far worse if we allow the environmental party to reach its goal of control over the use of all natural resources.

The devil is an expert in using counterfeit causes to conceal his motives and actions. He routinely adapts his methods to the times and condi*tions to be most effective in drawing people away from the true God. The conditions found at various times in history have been exploited by the god of this world to set up ‘red,’ ‘brown,’ and ‘green’ tyrannies. Each tyranny also required a ‘sacred’ text that often launched it. Many consider the publica*tion of Silent Spring in 1962 by Rachel Carson to be the birth of today’s environmental movement, with the Earth Day of 1970 its initial rise to power.

A similar comparison is made by the late Dr. Petr Beckmann, an immigrant to the United States from Czechoslovakia with first hand familiarity of the deception by which Marxism–Leninism was sold to the masses. The following account is from a visit he made to Russia and related in his newsletter Access to Energy in November 1991. (Remember that the communist system had just collapsed after 70 years and millions of deaths when reading this account.)

From Sept. 15 to 21 [1991], I was in St. Petersburg, Russia, to co–chair an international conference on non–Einsteinian space–time. I speak Russian with a thick foreign accent, but fluently, and spoke to many people, though mostly scientists. . . . Last time I was in Leningrad was in the summer of 1960, 31 years ago. . . .

I am interviewed by Smena (Shift), a newspaper for the young. It is “independent,” meaning without government subsidies, financed by shareholders, income mostly from advertising. The reporter is 17 years old, but highly intelligent. . . . He came to interview me about Einstein, but he does not know much physics, and talk about the journal I publish, Galilean Electrodynamics, turns to Access to Energy, which fascinates him. I explain about defending science against the Luddites, about the Greens and their real agenda.

“But what’s wrong with clean air and fresh water?” he objects.

“Nothing,” I answer. “And what is wrong with world peace, brotherhood among the nations, and ending exploitation of man by his fellow man?”

He looks at me and now his jaw drops. Then I feel something click in this 17–year old brain. . . .

[1] Quotation by F. Hoelderlin in The Road to Serfdom
by F. A. Hayek, 1944, p. 24.

[2] Portions of this comparison between communism, Nazism, and environmen*talism are adapted from “The Environmental Movement and the Value of Moderation,” by Brian K. Yoder (1992).
 

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