Strengths and weakness of `13 Vols FB.

#51
#51
sjt18 said:
Where did I say that was acceptable? Did I say that Dooley didn't deserve to be fired? Or Fulmer?

The team does not know how to win. They do not have a championship attitude or confidence... and neither do many UT fans. That isn't "belittling"... that is a fact. They do not know how to be positive AND demanding. Being defeated and quitting your support of the team is NOT what a great fanbase does.

A losing run causes a drop off if you are a fair weather fanbase.
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So, using rough numbers here of course, attendance at the Kentucky game was 75,000.

Which means about 75 percent of the fan base are hard core loyalist like you demand while roughly 25% were of the bandwagon variety.

Seems like a pretty solid fan base given the poor product that we have seen on the field for most of the decade. The fact that you have so many still showing up on here and other websites discussing the Vols in any fashion shows that the fan base is still passionate about the program.

Apathy is the real program killer.

I'd suggest getting off your high horse and stop throwing out criticisms of anyone that voices skepticism over the Jones hiring.

Between the way the hiring was handled and the track record of our last two hires, a little healthy skepticism should be expected.

Name calling and insults aren't the way to go with it but fans like myself choosing to take a wait and see approach shouldn't get their fan card revoked by some message board guru on his bully pulpit either.
 
#52
#52
JonGrudensAgent said:
So, using rough numbers here of course, attendance at the Kentucky game was 75,000.

Which means about 75 percent of the fan base are hard core loyalist like you demand while roughly 25% were of the bandwagon variety.
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I don't "demand" anything. Fans either have a positive determination to support their team becoming a winner or they don't. You either "get that" or you don't. My "demands" have absolutely nothing to do with it.

But no... if 75% were die hards then the stadium would have been 100% full unless you are saying UT only has 100K fans.

Seems like a pretty solid fan base given the poor product that we have seen on the field for most of the decade.
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Yes... if you are Vandy or UK.

The fact that you have so many still showing up on here and other websites discussing the Vols in any fashion shows that the fan base is still passionate about the program.
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Cubs fans are passionate. Passion does not by necessity result in positive action. Sometimes passion is destructive.

Apathy is the real program killer.
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Maybe. I would consider having 25K unsold seats for a fanbase that numbers in the several millions.... to be apathetic.

I'd suggest getting off your high horse and stop throwing out criticisms of anyone that voices skepticism over the Jones hiring.
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I didn't do that. Say your peace, get it off your chest, then let it go until it is time to replace him. He gets 2 or 3 years and you will either choose to give support to him and thus UT succeeding or you will carp and complain and contribute to failure.

No "high horse" anymore than those who have declared it to be a "bad hire" before he even begins to coach are on a "high horse"... in fact, alot less.

Between the way the hiring was handled and the track record of our last two hires, a little healthy skepticism should be expected.
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We agree. Now how can that be expressed in ways that support the future success of the program? It isn't by complaining about the hire and Jones for the next 3 years.

Name calling and insults aren't the way to go with it but fans like myself choosing to take a wait and see approach shouldn't get their fan card revoked by some message board guru on his bully pulpit either.
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If you are waiting to see then what do you think I was endorsing? Just wait and see. Complain but don't make it constant and destructive.

The only thing you and I can really do about the program right now is contribute to a positive image. I've said very little for or against Jones. He's the coach. Someone paid to do hiring hired him. Someone decided he was the best available option. I could give lists of reasons to be cautious and reasons to be hopeful. I choose to express hope because I EXPECT him to do well.
 
#53
#53
Strength(s): O-line.

Decent: RBs - I am not sure I agree they are a strength; I would say that they are not a weakness is more accurate. Neal and Lane are serviceable, middle-of-the-road SEC RBs, but certainly nowhere near elite (i.e. UGA or ALA RBs). Jury is still out on Q. Watson. It has been a long time since we had that game-breaking RB. I guess Hardesty or Foster would be the last, although Foster was not the same RB in college that he has been in NFL.

D-line - decent IF McCullers and Sentimore return.

LBs - decent with beast and a healthy Maggitt.

Weaknesses: Secondary - god awful last year.

QB - very little experience, although some potenital IMO.

Special teams - coverage units were decent I guess, but the rest was an unmitigated disaster. Saw someone call STs a strength - they need to be drug tested.

Prediction: This is a 6-6 team or 7-5 team at best IMO. Just don't have the players necessary to compete for championships in the SEC.
 
#54
#54
BTW, this roster is good enough to reveal how good of a coach Jones is. If they are competitive and win 8 or more then he was a "homerun" hire. If they are a 6 or 7 win team then he will not have beaten anyone he shouldn't have beaten... at this point, that's not a good sign. Less than that... he's in all likelihood not the guy.
 
#56
#56
sjt18 said:
Don't support the hire? Fine. Say so then decide whether you want the Vols to succeed or not and get behind the team or go do something else. Jones was hired. It is done. Time to support UT or find another bus. The constant negativism by many (not you that I know of) does nothing but harm.
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Do you think Saban was harmed by the all the negativism that he went through after the he left Miami, loss to La Monroe, had numerous players arrested for drugs and guns, plus the book scandal that put Bama back on probation?:hi:
 
#57
#57
Strengths: Coaching staff that has won and expects to win; Offensive line; more athleticism at QB; improved attitude in program

Weaknesses: inexperience at QB and WR, RBs are not SEC caliber; Linebackers; DBs; Schedule; no players in program know what it takes to win in the SEC
 
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#58
#58
Backwards K said:
Strengths: Coaching staff that has won and expects to win; Offensive line; more athleticism at QB; improved attitude in program

Weaknesses: inexperience at QB and WR, RBs are not SEC caliber; Linebackers; DBs; Schedule; no players in program know what it takes to win in the SEC
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I disagree, respectfully.
 
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#59
#59
sjt18 said:
I don't "demand" anything. Fans either have a positive determination to support their team becoming a winner or they don't. You either "get that" or you don't. My "demands" have absolutely nothing to do with it.

But no... if 75% were die hards then the stadium would have been 100% full unless you are saying UT only has 100K fans.

Yes... if you are Vandy or UK.

Cubs fans are passionate. Passion does not by necessity result in positive action. Sometimes passion is destructive.

Maybe. I would consider having 25K unsold seats for a fanbase that numbers in the several millions.... to be apathetic.

I didn't do that. Say your peace, get it off your chest, then let it go until it is time to replace him. He gets 2 or 3 years and you will either choose to give support to him and thus UT succeeding or you will carp and complain and contribute to failure.

No "high horse" anymore than those who have declared it to be a "bad hire" before he even begins to coach are on a "high horse"... in fact, alot less.

We agree. Now how can that be expressed in ways that support the future success of the program? It isn't by complaining about the hire and Jones for the next 3 years.

If you are waiting to see then what do you think I was endorsing? Just wait and see. Complain but don't make it constant and destructive.

The only thing you and I can really do about the program right now is contribute to a positive image. I've said very little for or against Jones. He's the coach. Someone paid to do hiring hired him. Someone decided he was the best available option. I could give lists of reasons to be cautious and reasons to be hopeful. I choose to express hope because I EXPECT him to do well.
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You've done little in a thread which was ostensibly started to discuss the potential strengths and weaknesses of the team next season other than dominate it with your idea on what fan behavior should be and how most fans here don't deserve a winner.

I'd call that riding your high horse.
 
#60
#60
D LINE AND O LINE, everywhere else weak, take a couple good recruiting classes to get back on par with the good teams.
 
#62
#62
sjt18 said:
I don't "demand" anything. Fans either have a positive determination to support their team becoming a winner or they don't. You either "get that" or you don't. My "demands" have absolutely nothing to do with it.

But no... if 75% were die hards then the stadium would have been 100% full unless you are saying UT only has 100K fans.

Yes... if you are Vandy or UK.

Cubs fans are passionate. Passion does not by necessity result in positive action. Sometimes passion is destructive.

Maybe. I would consider having 25K unsold seats for a fanbase that numbers in the several millions.... to be apathetic.

I didn't do that. Say your peace, get it off your chest, then let it go until it is time to replace him. He gets 2 or 3 years and you will either choose to give support to him and thus UT succeeding or you will carp and complain and contribute to failure.

No "high horse" anymore than those who have declared it to be a "bad hire" before he even begins to coach are on a "high horse"... in fact, alot less.

We agree. Now how can that be expressed in ways that support the future success of the program? It isn't by complaining about the hire and Jones for the next 3 years.

If you are waiting to see then what do you think I was endorsing? Just wait and see. Complain but don't make it constant and destructive.

The only thing you and I can really do about the program right now is contribute to a positive image. I've said very little for or against Jones. He's the coach. Someone paid to do hiring hired him. Someone decided he was the best available option. I could give lists of reasons to be cautious and reasons to be hopeful. I choose to express hope because I EXPECT him to do well.
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Agree with you 100 percent, everybody needs to get behind coach Jones, and support him.:good!:
 
#63
#63
terrypedigo said:
Agree with you 100 percent, everybody needs to get behind coach Jones, and support him.:good!:
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"Support" being the key word there.

I "support" my employees. That does not mean I have a high tolerance for those who fail to meet standards. On several occasions, I have supported them, counseled them, supported them, counseled them, supported them,..... FIRED them. At no point did I become negative or tell them how sorry they were. At no point did I stop hoping the best for them. It did come to a point where it was obvious the best for them was not in line with what was best for the team.

IMHO, Jones needs to win 8 next fall to prove he's competent. Seven wins only proves he's good enough to win the ones he's supposed to win. He needs to jump up and beat one of the top tier teams. Yes, UT plays Oregon away but they also get Auburn (who should be weaker than MSU) at home.

The returning roster is good enough for a worthy coach to jump up and get an unexpected win. If he can't.... then confidence sinks.
 
#64
#64
vols-1 said:
Do you think Saban was harmed by the all the negativism that he went through after the he left Miami, loss to La Monroe, had numerous players arrested for drugs and guns, plus the book scandal that put Bama back on probation?:hi:
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Bama wasn't negative were they? They got their guy. They even swallowed a 6 loss season that included the ULM embarrassment. And, even though Jones' rebuilding job isn't what Dooley's was.... Bama was ALOT closer to winning big when Saban arrived.
 
#65
#65
JonGrudensAgent said:
You've done little in a thread which was ostensibly started to discuss the potential strengths and weaknesses of the team next season other than dominate it with your idea on what fan behavior should be and how most fans here don't deserve a winner.

I'd call that riding your high horse.
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Follow the posts back. Someone listed "fans" as the only strength. I gave a simple answer then you and another poster took up the "pro-fan" position.

There's still no "high horse" position. Too many Vol fans act like losers. They don't like something they go into a Chik'n Lil routine predicting all doom and gloom. They act like fans who deserve EXACTLY what they predict... a losing program.

I have reservations about Jones. I also wish UT had been searching last year when Freeze and Sumlin were available. I am not sure why UT didn't make a real run at Patterson.

However someone (and it wasn't just Hart) thought Jones was the best available option. I expect him to win. If he doesn't then I expect him to be fired. In between, I will support him as much as I can because as long as he holds that job... what is good for Jones is probably good for UT.
 
#66
#66
sjt18 said:
"Support" being the key word there.

I "support" my employees. That does not mean I have a high tolerance for those who fail to meet standards. On several occasions, I have supported them, counseled them, supported them, counseled them, supported them,..... FIRED them. At no point did I become negative or tell them how sorry they were. At no point did I stop hoping the best for them. It did come to a point where it was obvious the best for them was not in line with what was best for the team.

IMHO, Jones needs to win 8 next fall to prove he's competent. Seven wins only proves he's good enough to win the ones he's supposed to win. He needs to jump up and beat one of the top tier teams. Yes, UT plays Oregon away but they also get Auburn (who should be weaker than MSU) at home.

The returning roster is good enough for a worthy coach to jump up and get an unexpected win. If he can't.... then confidence sinks.
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What you are saying is not true. If He wins seven He will have over achieved with the talent He has.
 
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#69
#69
Using my most twisted reverse logic, one of the strengths of the 2013 defense will be, by comparison, just how horrible we were this year. In other words, there is nowhere to go but up.

Cincinnati finished 12th in the country in scoring defense this year (17.17 pts. per game), 27th in rushing defense (130.25 ypg), tied for 35th in turnovers caused (24) and 41st in total defense (373.75 ypg). If we could split the proverbial difference and finish 30th nationwide in defense, we would more or less be right back where we were under Wilcox and, by comparison, have made enormous improvement on that side of the ball. That is not an inconceivable scenario, considering that we will be back in the comfort zone of a 4-3, a scheme to which most of our personnel were recruited.
 
#70
#70
We will Improve on D line, linebackers, DB (The whole Defense will Improve alot) and RB.

We will be worse at QB, WR and Tight End..(Our passing will be worse)

Our O line will stay the same
 
#74
#74
Vols4us said:
Folks, you are missing what they have returning at LB for the 4-3 for depth. Harris, Lewis, and Bynum are healed. Fugate has a year under his belt at LB. AJ, Maggitt, and Crump have played a lot of football.

Add in the interior DT's if Big Mac and Sentimore make it back. Couch, Hood, O'Brien, Tugboat, Clark, and Saulsberry are back. Walls, Smith and Miller are seniors with a lot of experience. Taylor is back for DE. These guys are all seasoned or have a redshirt behind them. Most have good experinece in the 4-3.

It's all about the secondary. And even that will be improved with scheme alone by using more 2-deep zone. Don't expect aggressive Chavis type D. Expect a controlled, keep the ball in front of you, bend don't break D that squeezes down in the red zone.

I have zero worries on O. The guys will take to it like fish in water. Most were in spreads going back to HS and Chaney ran it some as well. It's the same zone blocking scheme they used last year only with more quick traps (which is a good thing) and counters. Lane, Neal, DY, Q will all do great in it. The passing game is short, intermediate outs, go type patterns, and deep posts. It is a timing offense. Worley and Peterman will love it and ran spreads in their base offenses in HS.
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Greeeeeaaaattt pooooost!!!!!!! GO VOLS!
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