Success

#1
R

Redstater

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#1
What does it look like and how long does Heupel have to achieve it? Short term, long term, 2024 top 4, 2025 top 2, 2024 .500 SEC wins? One of the keys to investing is managing expectations.
 
#2
#2
As we have stated on a few other threads:
Competitive in EVERY game
Top 5 recruiting class EVERY year
Wear out the transfer portal to fill gaps EVERY year
Be in the conversation for the SECCG EVERY year
Be in the conversation for playoffs EVERY year
 
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#3
#3
The Tall Gguy said:
As we have stated on a few other threads:
Competitive in EVERY game
Top 5 recruiting class EVERY year
Wear out the transfer portal to fill gaps EVERY year
Be in the conversation for the SECCG EVERY year
Be in the conversation for playoffs EVERY year
Click to expand...

In other words, things that haven’t been accomplished by this program in close to two decades…except the 11-2 record last season.

Pure delusion to think that this program magically meets all of these goals with no growing pains.
 
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#6
#6
Well assuming we beat Vandy that means in his first three seasons Heupel has never had a losing record in league play which is pretty impressive considering the mess he stepped into when he was hired and the meat grinder that is the SEC. With a win over Vandy he will have a 14-10 record.
 
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#7
#7
EZE said:
In other words, things that haven’t been accomplished by this program in close to two decades…except the 11-2 record last season.

Pure delusion to think that this program magically meets all of these goals with no growing pains.
Click to expand...
Are you serious? "No growing pains"?????
Where have you been since 2008?
 
#8
#8
The Tall Gguy said:
Are you serious? "No growing pains"?????
Where have you been since 2008?
Click to expand...

You can’t expect any coach to waive a magic wand and immediately overcome that negative inertia and meet your list. And that is what you are implying.

Yes, the 11-2 is closer to where we want to be. The 8-4 is a step back and a growing pain (but not quite like the numerous losing seasons recently).

Let’s hope for better QB play next season.
 
#9
#9
EZE said:
You can’t expect any coach to waive a magic wand and immediately overcome that negative inertia and meet your list. And that is what you are implying.

Yes, the 11-2 is closer to where we want to be. The 8-4 is a step back and a growing pain (but not quite like the numerous losing seasons recently).

Let’s hope for better QB play next season.
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I don't believe anything I posted requires anything more than the coach doing his job well. No magic wands required. I would be happy to discuss where you disagree, but only if you cease and desist with the straw man arguments and provide specific discussion points regarding my post.
 
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#10
#10
Short Term: find significant upgrades across the back 7 on defense and O line and at least 1 game breaking WR for next season

Long Term: start getting into the top 5 in recruiting and consistently getting into the 12 team playoff.

I'm skeptical next year looks much different than this year with roster attrition and a new QB but there needs to be some tangible improvement in year 5 .

He has already surpassed expectations in my mind by navigating through the mess Fulmer and Pruitt left and looking at a 3rd consecutive bowl appearance for now.
 
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#11
#11
JoeMiltonsAgent said:
Short Term: find significant upgrades across the back 7 on defense and O line and at least 1 game breaking WR for next season

Long Term: start getting into the top 5 in recruiting and consistently getting into the 12 team playoff.

I'm skeptical next year looks much different than this year with roster attrition and a new QB but there needs to be some tangible improvement in year 5 .

He has already surpassed expectations in my mind by navigating through the mess Fulmer and Pruitt left and looking at a 3rd consecutive bowl appearance for now.
Click to expand...
If we are still having this conversation in year 5, I think everyone will be concerned.
 
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#12
#12
The Tall Gguy said:
If we are still having this conversation in year 5, I think everyone will be concerned.
Click to expand...
Absolutely.

Think he did enough to gain some patience from everyone but the FL and MIssouri games already have me concerned a little.

No shame in losing to Bama and GA. They are just unfortunately better than everyone else right now.

UF and Missouri are closer in talent and there seemed to be a distinct lack of toughness and smarts on display in both of those games. Those are two things a coach has direct control over in my mind.
 
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#13
#13
Keep building the program.
Recruit players that fit the culture.
Use the portal wisely.
Produce teams that live the maxims and truly give their all for Tennessee.
Do that, and CJH will achieve his objectives of competing for championships.
 
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#14
#14
Keep in mind that NCAA penalties will continue to impact Tennessee football for at least two more years, including scholarship reductions, curbs on official and unofficial visits, and evaluations.
 
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#15
#15
Continue to develop talent at key positions. Work the portal…hard. Recruit the way you have been.

Work to your strength…offense. It’ll keep you in most games and steal one from time to time. Build a championship level defense. And if that means staff changes…so be it.

We should be squarely within, or within spitting distance of the top-12 come November. That keeps you in the conversation for better things.

I know we are all genius football minds here, but I think Heupel has this well in hand. He’s over achieved everyone dating back to the closing of the Fulmer era…all with a depleted roster, looming NCAA trouble, and a diminished National perception. My disappointment over this season is likely of my own doing, and my natural tendency to over-analyze. Reality dictates we should have been at 8-10 wins. Next year may be close to the same with a new QB.

Our time is coming however.
 
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#18
#18
Redstater said:
What does it look like and how long does Heupel have to achieve it? Short term, long term, 2024 top 4, 2025 top 2, 2024 .500 SEC wins? One of the keys to investing is managing expectations.
Click to expand...
Unless something like an oh S**t moment happens you’ve got to give coach 3 more years or we are on that merry-go-round ride again and we all hated those 13? Years
 
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#19
#19
We can compare past coaches after their three years, but we have to understand that nobody starts with the same talent level, NCAA sanctions and level of competition.... that said, only Fulmer has a betterrecord after the first three years.

Phil Fulmer 28 7 0.800
Josh Heupel 26 12 0.684
Butch Jones 21 17 0.553
Johnny Majors 16 17 0.485
Jeremy Pruitt 16 19 0.457
Derek Dooley 15 21 0.417

I didn't include Bill Battle - he was 31-5 (0.861) after three but we know his recruiting was poor and after Dickey's players were gone, he slipped to 6-5 type coach. Dickey might be a good comparison. He took over a team that had gone 15-15 over the previous 3 years and he went 20-9 (0.690) over his first three years and won two SEC Championships in his next three years.

This thread is on how we define success, but we need to evaluate Josh for what he has done with what he inherited and not blindly demand immediate titles...right now we don't really know where he will level off. His next three seasons here at Tennessee will tell us that. And it will be three seasons unless the bottom drops out.
 
#21
#21
Sarms58 said:
We can compare past coaches after their three years, but we have to understand that nobody starts with the same talent level, NCAA sanctions and level of competition.... that said, only Fulmer has a betterrecord after the first three years.

Phil Fulmer 28 7 0.800
Josh Heupel 26 12 0.684
Butch Jones 21 17 0.553
Johnny Majors 16 17 0.485
Jeremy Pruitt 16 19 0.457
Derek Dooley 15 21 0.417

I didn't include Bill Battle - he was 31-5 (0.861) after three but we know his recruiting was poor and after Dickey's players were gone, he slipped to 6-5 type coach. Dickey might be a good comparison. He took over a team that had gone 15-15 over the previous 3 years and he went 20-9 (0.690) over his first three years and won two SEC Championships in his next three years.

This thread is on how we define success, but we need to evaluate Josh for what he has done with what he inherited and not blindly demand immediate titles...right now we don't really know where he will level off. His next three seasons here at Tennessee will tell us that. And it will be three seasons unless the bottom drops out.
Click to expand...
Demand immediate titles? Strawman much?


I think the demand is basically to be competitive in EVERY game.
 
#22
#22
The Tall Gguy said:
Demand immediate titles? Strawman much?


I think the demand is basically to be competitive in EVERY game.
Click to expand...
Guess you’ve missed those posts but yes, folks have demanded we win the east by 2025 (even though there is no east in 2025).

Being competitive in EVERY game sounds great but sometimes you run into a buzzsaw.
 
#23
#23
Redstater said:
What does it look like and how long does Heupel have to achieve it? Short term, long term, 2024 top 4, 2025 top 2, 2024 .500 SEC wins? One of the keys to investing is managing expectations.
Click to expand...
I thought he had already achieved a lot of success. Hasn’t had a losing season, has taken us to number 1 in the polls, and brought home an Orange Bowl trophy last season. In addition, after losing several key contributors to the NFL he has come back with a winning record this season. I’d say he’s been quite a success.
 
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#24
#24
Sarms58 said:
Guess you’ve missed those posts but yes, folks have demanded we win the east by 2025 (even though there is no east in 2025).

Being competitive in EVERY game sounds great but sometimes you run into a buzzsaw.
Click to expand...
I must have. What I haven't missed is all the posters incorrectly stating that everyone is demanding a national championship this year and for Heupel to be fired.
 
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