Surprise, surprise Team Obama floats VAT

#2
#2
Health care with no direction and not VAT. He said change, free stuff but no new taxes. Next thing is the Euro flag flying over the capital.
 
#3
#3
Where is VolinMN....??????

I told him this was coming!

Tax the country into oblivion and the only thing left standing is the gov't.
 
#6
#6
this won't affect anyone making less than $250k $200k right?
 
#8
#8
i'm waiting for obama to abolish firing poor people just like greece and france.
 
#10
#10
I thought Republicans adored the notion of a sales tax to replace the income tax. That way, the argument goes, all poprtions of the population pay tax based on what they spend, as opposed to what they earn. It theoretically shifts a significant share of the tax burden away from middle and upper class and puts it on the poor.
 
#11
#11
lawgator1 said:
I thought Republicans adored the notion of a sales tax to replace the income tax. That way, the argument goes, all poprtions of the population pay tax based on what they spend, as opposed to what they earn. It theoretically shifts a significant share of the tax burden away from middle and upper class and puts it on the poor.
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VAT is not a sales tax.

VAT will not replacing income tax; it will be added on top.
 
#12
#12
lawgator1 said:
I thought Republicans adored the notion of a sales tax to replace the income tax. That way, the argument goes, all poprtions of the population pay tax based on what they spend, as opposed to what they earn. It theoretically shifts a significant share of the tax burden away from middle and upper class and puts it on the poor.
Click to expand...

A sales tax is different than a VAT. And we conservatives would like to see a flat sales tax instead of a federal income tax, not in addition to.
 
#13
#13
lawgator1 said:
I thought Republicans adored the notion of a sales tax to replace the income tax. That way, the argument goes, all poprtions of the population pay tax based on what they spend, as opposed to what they earn. It theoretically shifts a significant share of the tax burden away from middle and upper class and puts it on the poor.
Click to expand...

a) it's not the same thing as sales tax

b) it isn't replacing the income tax
 
#15
#15
As soon as a flat tax was implemented the libs would lose that "we tax the wealthy" card they throw out there. BTW what is wealthy now? 50k?
 
#16
#16
lawgator1 said:
I thought Republicans adored the notion of a sales tax to replace the income tax.
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we do, for the most part.

That way, the argument goes, all poprtions of the population pay tax based on what they spend, as opposed to what they earn.
Click to expand...

you're doing good so far.

It theoretically shifts a significant share of the tax burden away from middle and upper class and puts it on the poor.
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and "boom!" goes the dynamite. a consumption tax that replaces an income tax doesn't shift the burden to the poor. The poor consume less, therefore they wouldn't pay as much tax. Under the Fair Tax, monthly prebate checks, based on a percentage of the poverty line, would go to all households in order to pay for basic necessities.
 
#17
#17
lawgator1 said:
I thought Republicans adored the notion of a sales tax to replace the income tax. That way, the argument goes, all poprtions of the population pay tax based on what they spend, as opposed to what they earn. It theoretically shifts a significant share of the tax burden away from middle and upper class and puts it on the poor.
Click to expand...


:lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove:
 
#19
#19
volinbham said:
VAT is not a sales tax.

VAT will not replacing income tax; it will be added on top.
Click to expand...

volfanjustin said:
A sales tax is different than a VAT. And we conservatives would like to see a flat sales tax instead of a federal income tax, not in addition to.
Click to expand...

droski said:
a) it's not the same thing as sales tax

b) it isn't replacing the income tax
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Fox News says its a sales tax. FOXNews.com - Obama Economic Adviser Says U.S. Should Consider 'Value-Added Tax'

The Heritage Foundation says its like a sales tax, the only difference being that its not charged at the register -- its charged during manufacture and so is built in to the price. Beware the Value-Added Tax | The Heritage Foundation

The Heritage Foundation piece is interesting because it says that a VAT is acceptable IF it is going to be used to replace an income tax because it is fundamentally a consumption tax.

Realistically, there is no way we will go from the elaborate income tax system we have one one day to a VAT or traditional sales tax the very next. It has to be gradual and would probably take decades.

Most economists seem to think that the current total national debt, as a percentage of GDP, is acceptable. The problem is that in recent years the annual deficit has been going up at an alarming rate. If the economy imporves, that should relieve some fo the burden, both in terms of spending and in terms of tax revenue.

In the meantime, if you really do want to move away from an income tax system, would this not be the place to start?
 
#20
#20
lawgator1 said:
Fox News says its a sales tax. FOXNews.com - Obama Economic Adviser Says U.S. Should Consider 'Value-Added Tax'

The Heritage Foundation says its like a sales tax, the only difference being that its not charged at the register -- its charged during manufacture and so is built in to the price. Beware the Value-Added Tax | The Heritage Foundation

The Heritage Foundation piece is interesting because it says that a VAT is acceptable IF it is going to be used to replace an income tax because it is fundamentally a consumption tax.

Realistically, there is no way we will go from the elaborate income tax system we have one one day to a VAT or traditional sales tax the very next. It has to be gradual and would probably take decades.

Most economists seem to think that the current total national debt, as a percentage of GDP, is acceptable. The problem is that in recent years the annual deficit has been going up at an alarming rate. If the economy imporves, that should relieve some fo the burden, both in terms of spending and in terms of tax revenue.

In the meantime, if you really do want to move away from an income tax system, would this not be the place to start?
Click to expand...


:lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove:
 
#21
#21
lawgator1 said:
Fox News says its a sales tax. FOXNews.com - Obama Economic Adviser Says U.S. Should Consider 'Value-Added Tax'

The Heritage Foundation says its like a sales tax, the only difference being that its not charged at the register -- its charged during manufacture and so is built in to the price. Beware the Value-Added Tax | The Heritage Foundation

The Heritage Foundation piece is interesting because it says that a VAT is acceptable IF it is going to be used to replace an income tax because it is fundamentally a consumption tax.

Realistically, there is no way we will go from the elaborate income tax system we have one one day to a VAT or traditional sales tax the very next. It has to be gradual and would probably take decades.

Most economists seem to think that the current total national debt, as a percentage of GDP, is acceptable. The problem is that in recent years the annual deficit has been going up at an alarming rate. If the economy imporves, that should relieve some fo the burden, both in terms of spending and in terms of tax revenue.

In the meantime, if you really do want to move away from an income tax system, would this not be the place to start?
Click to expand...

Do you really trust the government to give up one income source after they enact another? Do they generally give back money when they run surpluses or do the eventually find another way to spend it?

We are talking about government LG. Money is power and they will simply use it to spread around and keep the people at home happy with pork so they can secure re-election and sleep well at night. I simply don't trust government LG, they've given me no reason to.
 
#22
#22
lawgator1 said:
Fox News says its a sales tax. FOXNews.com - Obama Economic Adviser Says U.S. Should Consider 'Value-Added Tax'

The Heritage Foundation says its like a sales tax, the only difference being that its not charged at the register -- its charged during manufacture and so is built in to the price. Beware the Value-Added Tax | The Heritage Foundation

The Heritage Foundation piece is interesting because it says that a VAT is acceptable IF it is going to be used to replace an income tax because it is fundamentally a consumption tax.

Realistically, there is no way we will go from the elaborate income tax system we have one one day to a VAT or traditional sales tax the very next. It has to be gradual and would probably take decades.

Most economists seem to think that the current total national debt, as a percentage of GDP, is acceptable. The problem is that in recent years the annual deficit has been going up at an alarming rate. If the economy imporves, that should relieve some fo the burden, both in terms of spending and in terms of tax revenue.

In the meantime, if you really do want to move away from an income tax system, would this not be the place to start?
Click to expand...

yeah let's just try the VAT and not reduce income taxes because surely the politicians will give up that increased tax revenue in the future.
 
#23
#23
KB5252 said:
Do you really trust the government to give up one income source after they enact another? Do they generally give back money when they run surpluses or do the eventually find another way to spend it?

We are talking about government LG. Money is power and they will simply use it to spread around and keep the people at home happy with pork so they can secure re-election and sleep well at night. I simply don't trust government LG, they've given me no reason to.
Click to expand...

This is the difference between the camps, they have complete trust in gov't.
 
#24
#24
lawgator1 said:
The Heritage Foundation says its like a sales tax, the only difference being that its not charged at the register -- its charged during manufacture and so is built in to the price. Beware the Value-Added Tax | The Heritage Foundation

The Heritage Foundation piece is interesting because it says that a VAT is acceptable IF it is going to be used to replace an income tax because it is fundamentally a consumption tax.
Click to expand...

Being "like" sales tax doesn't make it a sales tax. Property taxes are like capital gains taxes but they are materially different.

The key distinctions include the addition at each stage of the supply chain process and the hidden nature of the VAT.

The latter is the big concern since it reduces purchasing power without the direct knowledge of consumers. Sales tax is visible and consumption varies and shifts in accordance with difference in sales tax rates.

Interesting how many of the conclusions of the Heritage Foundation report you completely ignored.
 
#25
#25
volinbham said:
Being "like" sales tax doesn't make it a sales tax. Property taxes are like capital gains taxes but they are materially different.

The key distinctions include the addition at each stage of the supply chain process and the hidden nature of the VAT.

The latter is the big concern since it reduces purchasing power without the direct knowledge of consumers. Sales tax is visible and consumption varies and shifts in accordance with difference in sales tax rates.

Interesting how many of the conclusions of the Heritage Foundation report you completely ignored.
Click to expand...

Heritage Foundation = Horrible white people
 
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