Talent Question

[peelwonder]

Hello Everyone, I don't post on here much but have been trolling the forums for years. I really think that our best players are currently in High School right now and we have an obvious lack of speed and talent.

The question I have is how many of our recruits in the 2014 class would be starters on this team right now?

I'm guessing at least 5.

 

[DocVol]

11. +/-11.

I hope that helps.

 

[sjt18]

There are at least 4 ways to look at the talent situation:

1- UT currently has none. IMHO, this is completely false.

2- UT has talent but it is too thin and not ideal for Jones' systems and philosophies. I don't agree but this is plausible.

3- UT has talent and is thin in spots but the biggest problem is the integration of the talent into Jones' system. I believe this is the most likely answer.

4- UT has talent and in spite of the thin spots and some youth Jones is undercoaching the talent indicating that he was a bad hire. Possible but IMHO premature and unlikely.

 

[sjt18]

To answer your question directly, NONE of the current '14 commits would be starters right now. Some would get PT especially at LB and in the secondary.


The interesting thing is that people keep saying that Jones just needs a chance to recruit "his type" of player.... but his '14 class is very similar in physical abilities to the guys on his current roster. If speed is the problem now... please point out the "burners" on the list of current commits.... especially at LB and DB. The OL's he has right now appear to be significantly MORE athletic than the 3 guys currently committed.

There is no current QB commit and possibly no room if someone wanted to commit. That indicates that Jones is satisfied with what he has or does not think he can sign anyone better.



I AM NOT talking these guys down... just pointing out that they are more similar to the guys on the current roster than many of you seem to think.

 

[Oskie Volum]

Hello Everyone, I don't post on here much but have been trolling the forums for years. I really think that our best players are currently in High School right now and we have an obvious lack of speed and talent.

The question I have is how many of our recruits in the 2014 class would be starters on this team right now?

I'm guessing at least 5.

Let's not count our chickens before they hatch. This place gets ahead of itself way to much. :ermm: Let's just wait until feb when we sign the class and go from there. Heck one of the top players is out for his sr yr. He may be rusty, and run cautious for a bit.

Yes our class is ranked high but we are pretty much tapped out, and other major programs still have plenty of room to start jumping us. Let's just take it day by day y'all.

 

[volroadwarrior]

There are at least 4 ways to look at the talent situation:

1- UT currently has none. IMHO, this is completely false.

2- UT has talent but it is too thin and not ideal for Jones' systems and philosophies. I don't agree but this is plausible.

3- UT has talent and is thin in spots but the biggest problem is the integration of the talent into Jones' system. I believe this is the most likely answer.

4- UT has talent and in spite of the thin spots and some youth Jones is undercoaching the talent indicating that he was a bad hire. Possible but IMHO premature and unlikely.

I pick door number 3 also. We have had some top 15 and 20 classes, but many, maybe most of the players are gone.

Most people are blaming Worley and he does deserve a lot of it. But, the defense cannot stop even S Ala on 3rd down and the passes across the middle. The question is a lack of speed (talent) or new system?

 

[sjt18]

I will go ahead and reveal myself as a double heretic with regards to Hurd.

1- He has suffered an injury that can be very difficult to heal. It could continue to cause him problems and prevent him from contributing next fall. It may also indicate him being prone to injury. IIRC, it isn't his first somewhat significant injury... or am I confused with someone else.

2- I do not have a great deal of evidence but based on the one televised game I saw plus his video highlights... he just does not look like a RB at the next level. If he becomes one it will be AFTER a year or two of development.

 

[volinSmyrna]

There are at least 4 ways to look at the talent situation:

1- UT currently has none. IMHO, this is completely false.

2- UT has talent but it is too thin and not ideal for Jones' systems and philosophies. I don't agree but this is plausible.

3- UT has talent and is thin in spots but the biggest problem is the integration of the talent into Jones' system. I believe this is the most likely answer.

4- UT has talent and in spite of the thin spots and some youth Jones is undercoaching the talent indicating that he was a bad hire. Possible but IMHO premature and unlikely.

I think we need to say talent/speed instead of just talent. Do we have talented kids...sure. However, the glaring need is SPEED!

To the OP's question, in my opinion the only commit that would start would be Lauderdale at WR. He's a JUCO kid that can play and since we have NO game experience on the outside, he would be most likely. Would love to think a healthy Hurd would get 5-8 carries a game, and Lambert would give much needed "QUALITY" depth inside on the DL. The only other wishfull thought would be Gaulden or TK2 would be able to start/play a lot next to Randolph.

 

[GAVol]

With any luck, Justus Pickett will be productive next year and Hurd won't have to play.

 

[SaintLouisVol]

With a few exceptions, it is very hard to start true freshmen the SEC despite their "talent."

Young men develop physically A LOT those first couple of years in the college system. It obviously has to do with the intensity of the strength and conditioning programs but also simply physiology. They just need to "fill out" as my mom would say.

Unless they are just blatantly gifted, they are much better off not playing early. There's just too much risk involved.

 

[Backwards K]

The same delusional people who were arguing that UT could win 10 games this year are the same ones who now are saying this team is being undercoached and Butch Jones was a bad hire. You folks don't know or understand football. This is the slowest UT team since the 60s. The talent level is way down and the depth is worse. It's bad, that's why the last coach was fired.

Butch Jones has won at every level in which he has coached. He knows how to win and once he gets the talent here, he will win again. Recruiting indicates he is getting the talent here.

If you would rather whine about the program which includes making a determination that everyone else is wrong about a 5* running back before he even gets here, then I would suggest not watching the games for the next 2-3 years while this coaching staff tries to wash the Dooley off the program.

 

[sjt18]

I pick door number 3 also. We have had some top 15 and 20 classes, but many, maybe most of the players are gone.

Much if not most. However there are quality athletes on both lines and talent at RB. There is youth at WR but good talent there and TE also. The first line in the secondary is a good group plus a couple of guys who can help at S. I hope the other two CB's coming back will shore that up a bit because right now UT cannot even put a nickel back in without suffering.

There is a lack of speed at LB outside of Sapp and Brewer. Both of those guys can run and cover. Overall it is a really big problem. I found myself asking Saturday why it wasn't Sapp and Brewer rather than AJ and one of the others in nickel. AJ struggles in space. IMHO, he would be wise to come back, work on speed and quickness, play lighter next year, then go into the draft. I think speed will hurt him if he goes pro in the next draft.

I absolutely LOVE the future of Reeves-Maybin at LB. I hope they start working him in some this year.

Most people are blaming Worley and he does deserve a lot of it. But, the defense cannot stop even S Ala on 3rd down and the passes across the middle. The question is a lack of speed (talent) or new system?

Combination IMO of two things primarily. 1- Players out of position possibly due to a new system... but that's a pretty old problem that may be related to the football intelligence of some of the guys. 2- The lack of talent and depth once you get past the DB starters.

We all like Moore but he isn't very fast. I am sure we all appreciate Toney but he's stop gap at best. Swafford has done some nice things but is a Fr and may lack the top end speed needed to get the job done.

I think there could be times when a dime package would be best... but UT actually LOSES speed by taking both Sapp and Brewer out and putting some of the DB's in.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Our defensive end position is a complete Joke. We lack talent and speed there big time.

 

[Cartervol]

Much if not most. However there are quality athletes on both lines and talent at RB. There is youth at WR but good talent there and TE also. The first line in the secondary is a good group plus a couple of guys who can help at S. I hope the other two CB's coming back will shore that up a bit because right now UT cannot even put a nickel back in without suffering.

There is a lack of speed at LB outside of Sapp and Brewer. Both of those guys can run and cover. Overall it is a really big problem. I found myself asking Saturday why it wasn't Sapp and Brewer rather than AJ and one of the others in nickel. AJ struggles in space. IMHO, he would be wise to come back, work on speed and quickness, play lighter next year, then go into the draft. I think speed will hurt him if he goes pro in the next draft.

I absolutely LOVE the future of Reeves-Maybin at LB. I hope they start working him in some this year.



Combination IMO of two things primarily. 1- Players out of position possibly due to a new system... but that's a pretty old problem that may be related to the football intelligence of some of the guys. 2- The lack of talent and depth once you get past the DB starters.

We all like Moore but he isn't very fast. I am sure we all appreciate Toney but he's stop gap at best. Swafford has done some nice things but is a Fr and may lack the top end speed needed to get the job done.

I think there could be times when a dime package would be best... but UT actually LOSES speed by taking both Sapp and Brewer out and putting some of the DB's in.

4-2-5. Play nickel. That would have put enough speed on the field to at least slow down that juggernaut(cough) USA offense in the second half. We stayed in base and i don't get that. I think i'm starting to see why Georgia fired that guy.

 

[sjt18]

The same delusional people who were arguing that UT could win 10 games this year are the same ones who now are saying this team is being undercoached and Butch Jones was a bad hire.

Not necessarily... and who said this team would win 10 games? I have said since the start that this is a 7 win roster IF Jones is the level of coach needed to get UT to the top. THAT coach will win all the games where he has a talent advantage then outcoach a few along the way. UT has more talent than six of its opponents. No upsets either way... this is a six win team and the coaching result is "average"... which is not good enough to get UT to the top.

You folks don't know or understand football. This is the slowest UT team since the 60s.

If you think that... then it is you that does not understand football. Being out of position is not the same as being slow. If you think this roster is too slow then you better hold on tight. There are few if any speed burners on the current commit list and were few among the '13 signees. If he does not like the type of player he has... he's got a funny way of showing it. He's recruiting similar players from a size/speed/strength/quickness standpoint.

The talent level is way down and the depth is worse. It's bad, that's why the last coach was fired.

No. The last coach was fired because he had gotten a bad attitude, had given up, and went 5-7 with a 10 win roster.

Butch Jones has won at every level in which he has coached. He knows how to win and once he gets the talent here, he will win again. Recruiting indicates he is getting the talent here.

Blaming it all on talent is almost as dumb as saying Jones should be fired now. And honestly, winning somewhere else does not mean he will win in the SEC. The SEC is a meat grinder that has chewed up other coaches that have had success elsewhere.

If you would rather whine about the program which includes making a determination that everyone else is wrong about a 5* running back before he even gets here, then I would suggest not watching the games for the next 2-3 years while this coaching staff tries to wash the Dooley off the program.

Who made a "determination"?

He outquicks the HS competition he's played against. They aren't SEC level players. In the video I have seen he has not just run over tacklers. He does appear to have very good top end speed. He has a great frame that they can hopefully put bulk on without hurting his speed.

I have not said he would not be a great player or even a great RB. I AM saying that based on the few things I have seen... he does not appear to be SEC ready.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

To answer your question directly, NONE of the current '14 commits would be starters right now. Some would get PT especially at LB and in the secondary.


The interesting thing is that people keep saying that Jones just needs a chance to recruit "his type" of player.... but his '14 class is very similar in physical abilities to the guys on his current roster. If speed is the problem now... please point out the "burners" on the list of current commits.... especially at LB and DB. The OL's he has right now appear to be significantly MORE athletic than the 3 guys currently committed.

There is no current QB commit and possibly no room if someone wanted to commit. That indicates that Jones is satisfied with what he has or does not think he can sign anyone better.



I AM NOT talking these guys down... just pointing out that they are more similar to the guys on the current roster than many of you seem to think.

I believe that the two running backs would be one and two in the rotation. There are no QBs committed, but I do believe that one of the current freshman QBs will be starting next year.

 

[photovol]

3-5 years to catch up with the Big Boys, S. Alabama game should have given us a reality check.

 

[RockyTop411]

Our defensive end position is a complete Joke. We lack talent and speed there big time.

Yep. Vereen is the only bright spot there. He'll be a player.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

I will go ahead and reveal myself as a double heretic with regards to Hurd.

1- He has suffered an injury that can be very difficult to heal. It could continue to cause him problems and prevent him from contributing next fall. It may also indicate him being prone to injury. IIRC, it isn't his first somewhat significant injury... or am I confused with someone else.

2- I do not have a great deal of evidence but based on the one televised game I saw plus his video highlights... he just does not look like a RB at the next level. If he becomes one it will be AFTER a year or two of development.

Hurd's injury will be healed before the end of this season. It will not be a problem in the future. He is a very talented running back and is all SEC caliber at his position. He needs to play a position where he will touch the ball 20-30 times a game. He is not a QB, so running back is his position. Paulk(sp) will share the running back duties, but we need to recruit at least one stud RB every year. Some of the other players committed may play a lot next year because of their speed. Our current team has less speed than any Tennessee team I can remember and I saw my first Tennessee football game in 1946. I look forward to next years team and believe we will be better than this year's team. Happy days are just around the corner.

 

[sjt18]

4-2-5. Play nickel. That would have put enough speed on the field to at least slow down that juggernaut(cough) USA offense in the second half. We stayed in base and i don't get that. I think i'm starting to see why Georgia fired that guy.

I noticed that a few times too... but again, none of the nickel backs offer much more speed than Sapp or Brewer. They're faster than AJ though which is the real mystery to me. When speed is premium and the opponent is not running between the tackles... why is he still in?

According to a post last week, they are looking at having Coleman play nickel in that package with Jones or Williams stepping in at CB. That would definitely be a speed improvement.

Does anyone know where Malik Foreman disappeared to? I thought he was supposed to bring some speed to the secondary this year?

 

[Cartervol]

I noticed that a few times too... but again, none of the nickel backs offer much more speed than Sapp or Brewer. They're faster than AJ though which is the real mystery to me. When speed is premium and the opponent is not running between the tackles... why is he still in?

According to a post last week, they are looking at having Coleman play nickel in that package with Jones or Williams stepping in at CB. That would definitely be a speed improvement.

Does anyone know where Malik Foreman disappeared to? I thought he was supposed to bring some speed to the secondary this year?

I'd leave Brewer and Sapp on the field in Nickel. They're the fastest guys you have. TE or slot on AJ is a mismatch every time. Gary Danielson so kindly kept pointing that out, over and over again.

 

[sjt18]

Hurd's injury will be healed before the end of this season.... He is a very talented running back and is all SEC caliber at his position. He needs to play a position where he will touch the ball 20-30 times a game. He is not a QB, so running back is his position.

I hope you are right but that isn't what I saw in the limited video I have been able to access. He looked more like a Trey Burton type of player... and absolutely nothing wrong with that. Who would not want one of those?

Paulk(sp) will share the running back duties,

Love his size and style. A little concerned that he also seems to get nicked up a lot.

but we need to recruit at least one stud RB every year.

No question... and I would really like to see UT land the kid from NC this year also- Derrell Scott.

Some of the other players committed may play a lot next year because of their speed.

Many will play simply out of necessity. Best case UT returns 6 LB's next year and that assumes AJ returns and Maggitt recovers. Maggitt and Reeves-Maybin are probably the only two with SEC level OLB speed.

Our current team has less speed than any Tennessee team I can remember and I saw my first Tennessee football game in 1946.

LOL. That is absolutely impossible. I would doubt it if you were even speaking in relative terms... but there's no way that's true in absolute terms.

I look forward to next years team and believe we will be better than this year's team. Happy days are just around the corner.

I don't. I think Jones should win 7 this year. Next year will be a step back as they play a TON of youth and experience youthful mistakes. A six win season next fall would be a good result. I believe '15 is when things really begin to come around assuming Jones is "the guy". He will have developed and experienced talent and by then will be less dependent on Fr to play key roles.

 

[Rudy123]

Hello Everyone, I don't post on here much but have been trolling the forums for years. I really think that our best players are currently in High School right now and we have an obvious lack of speed and talent.

The question I have is how many of our recruits in the 2014 class would be starters on this team right now?

I'm guessing at least 5.

My question is how many of our current recruits will be on campus in January, as "EE's" so they can participate in spring practice?

 

[sjt18]

I'd leave Brewer and Sapp on the field in Nickel. They're the fastest guys you have. TE or slot on AJ is a mismatch every time. Gary Danielson so kindly kept pointing that out, over and over again.

Yeah. Unfortunately it kind of reminded me of the game last year when they repeatedly pointed out that the RB was offset a step deeper than the QB on run plays but side by side on pass plays. A reporter even asked Dooley about it. He acted as if he had not noticed and said he'd look into it.... It never changed.

I started the season fearing that AJ and Maggitt would leave early. I'm now worried that AJ will return and continue to be a liability vs the pass and that Maggitt may never make it back.

 

[Oskie Volum]

4-2-5. Play nickel. That would have put enough speed on the field to at least slow down that juggernaut(cough) USA offense in the second half. We stayed in base and i don't get that. I think i'm starting to see why Georgia fired that guy.

I agree with u so this isn't about that. I just think that teams like s Bama are built to be fast and score. Something that the sec is just starting to get use to. I was hoping butch would be use to it more but starting to worry there. We as ut fans are expecting and wanting tough Ds but got a coaching staff that tends to win on the Os ability to out score the other teams.

I was saying this same kind of thing last yr when Troy gave us such a hard time. We r built to defend sec Os not those type of teams. This is was my impression of why Dooley wanted to go to 3-4 as once the talent is there it's works better against the Os that are more popular now...no??

Sjt in know ur in here so help me out a bit too on this. Thx