TD or not

#1
Golfprovol

Golfprovol

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#1
When a player runs toward the pylon, dives and slides the ball inside the pylon it is a TD. Even if he drops the ball before hitting the ground. If he is on the 50 and dives for a first down and drops the ball before he hits the ground it is a fumble.

Now they say as soon as the ball is in his hands and breaks the plain, it is deemed a TD regardless of what happens next.

A receiver jumps to catch a pass in the endzone, catches it and then drops it when he hits the ground it is incomplete even though he had the ball and broke the plain same as the other player.

I just really hate the dive at the pylon, drop the ball, whole body out of bounds but it is a TD......rant over!
 
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#5
#5
When a runner breaks the plane, they already have possession of the ball. A receiver has to complete the process of the catch (which includes “surviving the ground”) in order to establish possession. You said it yourself: if a receiver drops the ball before establishing possession, it’s an incomplete pass. If a runner drops the ball, it’s a fumble, because possession was already established. You’re comparing apples and oranges. You seriously want to wipe a touchdown off the board because someone dropped the ball after scoring?
 
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#6
#6
Golfprovol said:
When a player runs toward the pylon, dives and slides the ball inside the pylon it is a TD. Even if he drops the ball before hitting the ground. If he is on the 50 and dives for a first down and drops the ball before he hits the ground it is a fumble.

Now they say as soon as the ball is in his hands and breaks the plain, it is deemed a TD regardless of what happens next.

A receiver jumps to catch a pass in the endzone, catches it and then drops it when he hits the ground it is incomplete even though he had the ball and broke the plain same as the other player.

I just really hate the dive at the pylon, drop the ball, whole body out of bounds but it is a TD......rant over!
Click to expand...

You are talking about a ball carrier who had full possession of the ball vs a completed catch. Regardless of where the WR is if the jump for the catch they must maintain possession all the way to the ground.
 
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#7
#7
BenGrimm said:
You are talking about a ball carrier who had full possession of the ball vs a completed catch. Regardless of where the WR is if the jump for the catch they must maintain possession all the way to the ground.
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Just seems odd that they can drop it as they cross the plain while in the air and it still counts. As they dive and start to drop it they no longer have full control but it is never called a fumble
 
#9
#9
Golfprovol said:
Just seems odd that they can drop it as they cross the plain while in the air and it still counts. As they dive and start to drop it they no longer have full control but it is never called a fumble
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As soon as the ball breaks the plane the play is technically over. Anything that happens after that doesn't matter.
 
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#11
#11
K-town Vol Fan said:
As soon as the ball breaks the plane the play is technically over. Anything that happens after that doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
But if the runner is dropping it as it crosses should it not be a fumble? I know how possession and the plain works, just ranting about how it is never called a fumble when they are dropping it as they cross.
 
#12
#12
Golfprovol said:
But if the runner is dropping it as it crosses should it not be a fumble? I know how possession and the plain works, just ranting about how it is never called a fumble when they are dropping it as they cross.
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They had possession before entering the end zone. They dont have to establish anything. They already established possession and the play is dead once it touches the goal line.
 
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#16
#16
Golfprovol said:
But if the runner is dropping it as it crosses should it not be a fumble? I know how possession and the plain works, just ranting about how it is never called a fumble when they are dropping it as they cross.
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I believe they do have to have control of the ball, not sure what you are referencing
 
#17
#17
I think the difference is u can't advance it pass the endzone. A first down is still in the field of play. A play is dead when it crosses the goaline.
 
#18
#18
K-town Vol Fan said:
The ball never crossed the plane on that play. As painful as that was, it was the right call. In the NFL today alone there were 2 TDs called back as touchbacks because the runner dropped the ball before they crossed the plane.
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This is the rule I dislike the most. In any other circumstance, a ball fumbled forward that goes out of play before another player gains possession is brought back to the spot of the fumble. If it goes into the endzone and then out of bounds, though, it is somehow a turnover and a touchback.
 
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#20
#20
deatojl said:
This is the rule I dislike the most. In any other circumstance, a ball fumbled forward that goes out of play before another player gains possession is brought back to the spot of the fumble. If it goes into the endzone and then out of bounds, though, it is somehow a turnover and a touchback.
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I agree. It sucks and is unreasonable. Buts its the same rule college and pro.
 
#23
#23
Golfprovol said:
When a player runs toward the pylon, dives and slides the ball inside the pylon it is a TD. Even if he drops the ball before hitting the ground. If he is on the 50 and dives for a first down and drops the ball before he hits the ground it is a fumble.

Now they say as soon as the ball is in his hands and breaks the plain, it is deemed a TD regardless of what happens next.

A receiver jumps to catch a pass in the endzone, catches it and then drops it when he hits the ground it is incomplete even though he had the ball and broke the plain same as the other player.

I just really hate the dive at the pylon, drop the ball, whole body out of bounds but it is a TD......rant over!
Click to expand...
With your receiver analogy, the receiver has to have possession of the ball through the ground to count as a catch currently. You have to have possession while crossing the plane. We have a famous "I touched the football while standing in the endzone" situation a long time ago when Florida beat us with the exact thing. The ball hit the receiver in the chest and went straight to the ground, but it was ruled a TD and the Gators stole a victory.
 
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#24
#24
Maybe a dumb question but the GA v TX game got me thinking about it.

In that game ArchM got a touchdown by his body touching the pylon with ball past the goal line. IIRC the ball was out of bounds, but in this case the player is granted goal line extension. So, ball is past the extended goal line, in runners possession when runner hits the pylon making the play dead. Touchdown.

So my question is if a receiver catches the ball in the air, maintains possession to the ground and the ball is beyond the extended goal line, but receiver doesn’t tap the ground with one foot but instead only taps the pylon, is that a touchdown? What if it is the pylon at the back of the endzone? Can you score a touchdown like this without a foot hitting the ground but hitting the pylon instead?
 
#25
#25
Golfprovol said:
When a player runs toward the pylon, dives and slides the ball inside the pylon it is a TD. Even if he drops the ball before hitting the ground. If he is on the 50 and dives for a first down and drops the ball before he hits the ground it is a fumble.

Now they say as soon as the ball is in his hands and breaks the plain, it is deemed a TD regardless of what happens next.

A receiver jumps to catch a pass in the endzone, catches it and then drops it when he hits the ground it is incomplete even though he had the ball and broke the plain same as the other player.

I just really hate the dive at the pylon, drop the ball, whole body out of bounds but it is a TD......rant over!
Click to expand...
Really pretty simple, a runner is in possession and while airborne holds the ball over the pylon, DONE DEAL. An airborne receiver does not have possession until he touches the ground to complete the catch. No possession no TD.

One rule I have never seen dealt with, is that if an offensive and defensive player are both airborne and jointly gain possession, the one who touches the ground first is awarded initial possession. Does not matter who touched it in the air first. Unless they have changed the rule in the last few years. OLD RULEBOOK.

Completed Pass—ARTICLE 6Approved Ruling 7-3-6I.

Two opposing players receive a legal forward pass while both are off the ground, and both players return to the ground inbounds at the same time
RULING: Simultaneous catch; the ball is awarded to the passing team (Rule 2-4-4)II.
 
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