Tennessee's Butch Jones: 'We have absolutely zero depth'

[DD4ME]

I'm glad you brought that up. Even though we had, as you point out, a depleted roster in 2010 in terms of numbers, many of the players were still very talented. Many of them went on to NFL careers.

And as such, if I recall correctly, we were actually leading Oregon AND bammer that year at halftime, and only trailed LSU by a bit. The very three teams you mention.

Wanna actually compare halftime scores to final scores?

Here we go!

2010 Oregon game at half: UT 13 Oregon 13
Final: UT 13 Oregon 48

2010 Bammer game at half: UT 10 Bammer 13
Final: UT 10 Bammer 41

2010 LSU game at half: UT 7 LSU 7
Final: UT 14 LSU 16

See a pattern? How we were close at half in the first two and then just got embarassed? And do you recall the complete cluster-f at the end of the LSU game, a game we should have won?

Let me also state for the record that Bammer was 8th when we played them, Oregon 7th, and LSU 12th.


Now look how Jones has done against similar competition.

2013 Oregon at half UT 7 Oregon 38
Final UT 14 Oregon 59

2013 Bammer at half UT 0 Bammer 35
Final UT 10 Bammer 45

Who to pick in place of LSU? USC is a good analogy because they were ranked 11 when we played them, one notch ahead of LSU and it came down to a play at the end, but we WON this time and LOST to LSU in one of the biggest screwups in the history of Tennessee football...having 13 players on the field in a situation where we would have won easily!

Oregon is a bit of an exception as is SOLA, but in EVERY OTHER GAME THIS YEAR, the Vols have gotten BETTER as the game rolled on.

That is coaching my friend. No adjustments at halftime and no inspiration from coaches means teams that QUIT in the second half. As bad as we have been beaten in some games, Tennesse this year has played hard to the end.

I don't want to hear that we "quit" against Mizzou. If we had quit they would have scored way more than 7 in the second half.

I can understand some of what you say but coming out flat and uninspired should count for something in this too. Starting and then keeping Peterman in counts for something also. I love Butch, I really do but after watching 4 coaches in 6 years I've gotten a good appreciation on the varying degrees of losses and failure.

 

[majic73]

I can understand some of what you say but coming out flat and uninspired should count for something in this too. Starting and then keeping Peterman in counts for something also. I love Butch, I really do but after watching 4 coaches in 6 years I've gotten a good appreciation on the varying degrees of losses and failure.

got to disagree with the flat and uninspired thing here . The game was close for the the biggest part of the 1st half. Back to that defensive depth thing ...without a true rotation , 1 half is about all you can expect.

Dobbs is a freshmen. He made some incredible plays and took us to the red zone 7 or 8 times. Due to a few well timed drops by receivers and Dobbs having some typical freshman inconsistencies we were unable to punch it in.

When Dobbs reaches a consistent level of play ( I think it will be soon ...maybe this weekend ? ) we will convert some of those scoring opportunities and will find ourselves in these games. His consistency will dictate how effective our running game is by unclogging the run gaps. This will also , in theory , reduce our defenses snaps and make them more effective.

The groundwork for competition was there last weekend ..inconsistent QB play held us up. Dobbs will 'arrive' very soon .

 

[Defaultuser]

got to disagree with the flat and uninspired thing here . The game was close for the the biggest part of the 1st half. Back to that defensive depth thing ...without a true rotation , 1 half is about all you can expect.

Dobbs is a freshmen. He made some incredible plays and took us to the red zone 7 or 8 times. Due to a few well timed drops by receivers and Dobbs having some typical freshman inconsistencies we were unable to punch it in.

When Dobbs reaches a consistent level of play ( I think it will be soon ...maybe this weekend ? ) we will convert some of those scoring opportunities and will find ourselves in these games. His consistency will dictate how effective our running game is by unclogging the run gaps. This will also , in theory , reduce our defenses snaps and make them more effective.

The groundwork for competition was there last weekend ..inconsistent QB play held us up. Dobbs will 'arrive' very soon .

So its Dobbs fault UT lost? Since he "held them up"? At least he actually showed up to play. So Missouri gaining 339 yds. rushing is his fault too?

 

[orangealways]

Probably because they are tired because there is no one behind them to play the second hardest schedule in america

Second hardest??
Who has a harder schedule than us?

 

[majic73]

So its Dobbs fault UT lost? Since he "held them up"? At least he actually showed up to play. So Missouri gaining 339 yds. rushing is his fault too?

never said it was his fault ...I said he is almost there . The mechanics of competitive football were in place. Do the 'what-if ' math on 7 trips into the endzone ...and remove 3 turnovers. I think you will see what I mean. This is a competitive game all the way if those items are resolved.

The D played pretty good for most of the 1st half . Thats all they are going to offer given their lack of depth and inability to rotate. The D needs some help from the offense.

To expand on what I said ...Dobbs had the stats of a winner ..except for the scoreboard and turnovers. I fully believe this kid will arrive very soon , maybe even Saturday . His production will help the running game as well as the defense.

 

[Ducreux]

What Jones is doing is managing his career....thats his primary focus...yes he wants to do a good job and win games but first and foremost its about his succeeding....as it is with most coach and most people....you look after yourself and family first...everything he does is done with that in mind...

Loyalty doesn't exist nowadays....either way, coach to school or school to coach....

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

I don't think so, and I'm sure he fully expects his team to win the game Saturday, as do I. He is just not the type of coach to be defeated before he even plays the game, unlike our previous coach.

Most fans are defeated before the game is even played too.

 

[Dragon18]

I'm going to push back on this a bit. Recruiting rankings are not perfect, but we averaged 15th in the country per Rivals the last 4 years. That isn't bad at all.

And with a few exceptions, there has been almost no turnover...by which I mean players leaving, between Jones and Dooley.

What Kiffin did was deliberately run off several Fulmer players, some of whom were pretty good, and then recruit an unfortunate number (not ALL of his players, but a good many) of players that washed out like Nukeese Richardson and Bryce Brown, to name just two.

So that when Kiffin left there was even more turnover.

The person you responded to is correct and not "ignorant" at all....we DID have only 65 scholarship players left at the start of Dooley's term. We might as well have been on major probation. And it can be laid squarely on Kiffin.

But where I will agree with you is that even with the situation that bad, Dooley still completely under-performed as a coach. No question about that at all.

It never ceases to amaze me how much we as VN hang our hats on our recruiting class ranking. THAT IS JUST THE STARTING POINT (not yelling). A recruiting ranking is a guideline for POTENTIAL success. If you have a coaching staff that is incapable of making these players better that ranking means absolutely nothing. Likewise, a program like Oregon or Mizzou that doesn't have as high ranked recruiting classes but recruits based upon the system and needs and then does an excellent job of developing players will take that class to greater heights. We continually think that highly rated recruiting classes will guarantee us success. IT WILL NOT. It will give us a better starting point and to win NC great recruits are required. DOOLEY SUCKED WITH REGARDS TO DEVELOPING PLAYERS. In fact he took good players and made them... not good. He was a loser with a losers mentality and that was not good at all for this program. Changing that mindset and adding quality depth is CBJ's major challenge and it is showing up big time right now because, as anybody who has played knows, the season is a terrible grind about right now.

As for the OP, I don't think CBJ is making excuses or setting up the fan base for another blowout this weekend. He is simply stating what anyone that knows football can plainly see. He has zero depth and it is wearing on the team. He is trying to get them to battle through, but it is incredibly tough. Every team he has played except for the early patsies have been ranked in the top 10 at some point this season. Let's all take a collective deep breath and wait to see what happens. I will be ecstatic if we make a bowl game this year by winning two of our next three.

Anyway, that's my .02eace2:

 

[BearBryant]

I'm just going by the name Bear and relax,take it easy,check him out if you want to and let us know what you find out

I believe you started this thread. You should have checked this out before you put it on here.

Butch doesn't talk about his team like that. Butch believes he and his coaching staff can win this year.

To say "absolutely zero depth" is not Butch. Mainly the depth is inexperienced and needing development as opposed to no talent.

Why do I feel like I'm wasting my time.

 

[FRO]

Just find a way to get to 6 wins and the rest will take care of it self.

 

[arkyvol]

one thing for people to remember,it is going to be a crap load of freshmen next year and that usually doesn't work good in the SEC

no, but you've got to remember, jones is having to work his way out of the hamilton/dooley crater.

 

[chattavol420]

I'm surprised he would say that. What good does it do.

 

[arkyvol]

So Dooley's recruiting classes were top 15-20 and there is no talent on the team?

Dooley says, "We're not a very good team, right now." and he is crucified on here.

So Jones says that UT has no depth and a lot of you are in complete agreement.

Prior to the season anyone that said UT wasn't a very good team was immediately called a negavol or troll. Those same posters predicted wins over Oregon and Mizzou while putting Bama on upset notice.

So the same people that called others trolls or negavols and predicted crazy wins are now blaming the shortcomings of the team on talent????

there's more to it than just issuing jerseys to incoming freshmen. its called coaching, something dooley couldn't even spell.

 

[Dan Federman]

A. He's right.

B. Where are all the guys that get all upset at posters on here criticizing players? That is essentially what CBJ just did.

A. I agree, it is the truth
B. He's the coach, he gets paid to judge what he see's everyday in practice.(Where as most fans have no clue) Saying we have "0" depth is not being overly critical. It's not like he called out players by name

 

[Recoil]

Those posters are just unrealistic vol fans.

You're right. Check out the lunacy in the attached thread.

I started it. The nuts you referenced finished it:

http://www.volnation.com/forum/tennessee-vols-football/207430-talent-level.html

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Just find a way to get to 6 wins and the rest will take care of it self.

:good!:

 

[BanditVol]

I can understand some of what you say but coming out flat and uninspired should count for something in this too. Starting and then keeping Peterman in counts for something also. I love Butch, I really do but after watching 4 coaches in 6 years I've gotten a good appreciation on the varying degrees of losses and failure.

I didn't say Jones was perfect...just a lot better than Dooley. I wanna see someone argue that.

The question going forward is can he compete with the likes of Muschamp,Stoops , Richt, Franklin, Pinkel,SOS, and Saban? (increasing order of difficulty as I see it ).

So far its a wash as far as I am concerned. He outcoached Richt and SOS, got schooled by Pinkel and Saban and Muschamp was a wash IMO (both teams sucked).

Let's see how he handles Franklin and I am not worried about Stoops. We don't face Malzahn every year.

There are not just good teams in the SEC, but good coaches. It's tough. I would say Butch has held his own this year under the circumstances and can finish strong.

We will see.....

 

[MOOOOONEY]

How many scholarship players were on the roster when Dooley got to UT??..65ish??

So all yall complaining about bad depth that's bad depth. He had a hole to dig out of that was hard to do. He had the NCAA and was on the hot seat real early. So all these excuses and whining really is pointless. The guy is getting pd 3 mil a year and was handed 2 solid QBs that had been on campus to work with a full offseason and he doesn't have enough depth??? Dooley had a true freshman and a JUCO transfer starting the season, a depleted team full of issues. Many had to leave. CBJ doesn't have anything near that.

Oh yeah to yall toughest schedule folks...he had to play OR, Bama, LSU. So hold the guy who is getting pd what...40%+ a year than the guy who actually cleaned up a lot of crap.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Are you saying Dooley cleared up a lot of crap in terms of the roster?

Then answer this question why do we have 2 freshman and a soph starting at receiver? when Dooley took over he had 2 SR'S WR'S 1 who is playing the NFL plus Hunter and Rogers who were Freshman.

Why do we only have 1 upperclassman TE? When Dooley come in he had Stocker and Rivera who are both playing in the NFL.

Why do we not have much depth on the Oline? His and Kiffins class in 2010 had some Oline talent but since then he has signed Tiny who is a starter, Alan Posey who has left the team bc he couldn't play in the sec, Marques Pair who has not contributed, did not sign 1 offensive Lineman in 2012, the only other Dooley Olineman contributing is Crowder and Kerbyson. CBJ is trying to RS Jackson because after this year it is quite possible the whole starting oline will be gone.

RB depth is terrible Dooley gave us Lane, Smith, Hill, Young, and Neal. Even though Neal was a top 250 recruit according to Rivals he did not have a stellar offer list. Neal played receiver for 1 year and then moved back to RB, young has been moved to receiver, hill and smith have not contributed much except on ST's. Neal has more rushing yards this season with 3 games remaining then he had all of last year and averages more YPC and Lane has been a solid contributor who should pass last years total even though he missed 2 games with injuries.

Dooley missed on a lot of QB's, when CBJ arrived he had 2 scholarship QB's on campus with only Worley playing any meaningful snaps and add to that no upperclassmen receivers and that is a recipe for disaster.

DLine is not very deep or talented but you could argue some guys are playing the best in their career namely Marlon Walls. Former Offensive lineman starting at defensive tackle who is undersized. the loss of MO Couch is hurting the depth.

Our LB's are painfully slow, this may be the area Dooley recruited the worst in and that is saying something. Since 2010 we have signed a total of 7 LB's, Vereen was moved to DE, Maggitt has not played a down this year, Sapp and Brewer both started out in the Secondary. Do some research go to Rivals and look at the offer list of our LB's.

Our secondary is also hurting for speed and does not have a ton of depth we have 5 walkons playing significant minutes plus 4 freshman and only 1 scholarship senior playing. Since 2010 the secondary has lost 7 players due to leaving, being kicked off the team, position move or never making it into school and in that time we signed 13 DB's.

 

[BanditVol]

It never ceases to amaze me how much we as VN hang our hats on our recruiting class ranking. THAT IS JUST THE STARTING POINT (not yelling). A recruiting ranking is a guideline for POTENTIAL success. If you have a coaching staff that is incapable of making these players better that ranking means absolutely nothing. Likewise, a program like Oregon or Mizzou that doesn't have as high ranked recruiting classes but recruits based upon the system and needs and then does an excellent job of developing players will take that class to greater heights. We continually think that highly rated recruiting classes will guarantee us success. IT WILL NOT. It will give us a better starting point and to win NC great recruits are required. DOOLEY SUCKED WITH REGARDS TO DEVELOPING PLAYERS. In fact he took good players and made them... not good. He was a loser with a losers mentality and that was not good at all for this program. Changing that mindset and adding quality depth is CBJ's major challenge and it is showing up big time right now because, as anybody who has played knows, the season is a terrible grind about right now.

As for the OP, I don't think CBJ is making excuses or setting up the fan base for another blowout this weekend. He is simply stating what anyone that knows football can plainly see. He has zero depth and it is wearing on the team. He is trying to get them to battle through, but it is incredibly tough. Every team he has played except for the early patsies have been ranked in the top 10 at some point this season. Let's all take a collective deep breath and wait to see what happens. I will be ecstatic if we make a bowl game this year by winning two of our next three.

Anyway, that's my .02eace2:

I agree with almost everything you say...recruiting is NOT everything, though it is a big part of it.

It's just that the post I was responding to was about recruiting. :hi:

 

[Dragon18]

I agree with almost everything you say...recruiting is NOT everything, though it is a big part of it.

It's just that the post I was responding to was about recruiting. :hi:

NP Bandit- I wasn't actually criticizing your post on that, I should have posted separate post. Sometimes I just hit reply because something in a post causes the thought. I'm still a rookie LOL.:hi:

 

[WinginFlorida]

I think if I were someone who worked hard every day in practice but had not gotten a chance to show what I could do in a real game situation... I'd feel a little "thrown under the bus" right now.

I especially think if I were Crowder, Kerbyson, Wiesman, Saulsberry... watching the guys in front of me give half effort... that comment would be pretty offensive.


Before you attack... Please tell me this. How many of the guys on the roster who cannot be considered "depth" right now were with the team for spring practice? The summer? If you've had that much time to get a guy ready... why do you have zero depth?

sjt,

I really enjoy the majority of your posts as you typically inject practical and reasonable viewpoints in your posts. You avoid putting on the Orange glasses or drink the kool-aid. But, in this case, I feel you are definitely offbase and could also be accused of having an agenda...you are definitely better than that.

Whether a kid has been here for 2 years, one year or since the summer, that is really immaterial if the natural talent and potential is simply not there. This won't matter if CBJ, Bear Bryant or Jon Gruden is the coach. Just because a kid is on the roster doesn't automatically mean he can be coached up to compete at this level.

You mention the names of Crowder, Kerbyson, Wiesman and Saulsberry above in addition to Foreman, JRM, R Jones and M Williams in a later post. Assuming for a moment each of these guys are excellent backups, coming up with but 8 names (7 of which are freshman or sophomores) as reserves with 22+ positions to be filled in the 2-deep sure sounds to me like the Vols have very, very little depth and would certainly justify CBJ's comments. This is also assuming Jones' comments were not taken out of context or he was not misquoted...he could have easily said " we are incredibly thin at most positions and damn near have zero depth".

IMO, your comments indicate an inclination to label Jones and the staff as being poor coaches or developers of talent. Whether that is indeed the case or not remains to be seen...I'm looking forward to seeing them work with the level of talent/potential that is coming to UT in the next few years. We will then have a far better sampling of their abilities to coach these kids up...until then, the veiled accusations are not justified and certainly don't reflect your obvious knowledge of the game.

JMO...

 

[Zues1]

So why add more contact to practice this week? That's going to solve nothing.

Gotta agree with this, I'm all about being mean and nasty but if we have zero depth (his words) why continue to add more nicks and bruises to an already beat up bunch on the practice field.

I remember the complaints about Pearl's BB team fading at the end of the season because they were "drained" from the season long up tempo pressure.

Same deal with the football team, I'm sure some of these guys who play 98% of the time are pretty beat up at this point in the season,

 

[therealitytheory]

To the guy who keeps claiming Dooley was a net positive influence on the program...please re-watch the TN-KY game from 2011. The one where a beat-down gang of 'cats with a WR behind center triumphed over our heavily favored yet thorougly-uninspired Vols. When apparently some of our key players weren't in the mood to go back to a lower-tier bowl.

In case you managed to block that out of your memory.

 

[wmcovol]

Jones is probably using that to motivate some of the 2nd teamers. If you are settled on the 2nd team and know it (much of the OL for example) some kids think "I'll never play this year anyway" so they quit working hard and quit improving.

Dooley had to be one of the worst talent evaluators and recruiters in the history of college football. He recruited like crap and now the new guy comes in with a top 5 class in the first year. What is the difference? Please dont say the indoor facility cause its been under construction for most of Dooley's tenure. Kids could see it. It was his arrogrant personality and inability to pick out a good player. JMO

 

[Dragon18]

Jones is probably using that to motivate some of the 2nd teamers. If you are settled on the 2nd team and know it (much of the OL for example) some kids think "I'll never play this year anyway" so they quit working hard and quit improving.

Dooley had to be one of the worst talent evaluators and recruiters in the history of college football. He recruited like crap and now the new guy comes in with a top 5 class in the first year. What is the difference? Please dont say the indoor facility cause its been under construction for most of Dooley's tenure. Kids could see it. It was his arrogrant personality and inability to pick out a good player. JMO

I disagree with the notion that the second teamers are mailing it in because they don't foresee playing time. If that is the caliber of competitor we have on this team we are in worse shape than I think we are and CBJ needs to clean house. If the 2nd team isn't busting ass to push the 1st team, no one gets better. eace2: