Tennessee's Butch Jones: 'We have absolutely zero depth'

[tvols75]

sjt,

I really enjoy the majority of your posts as you typically inject practical and reasonable viewpoints in your posts. You avoid putting on the Orange glasses or drink the kool-aid. But, in this case, I feel you are definitely offbase and could also be accused of having an agenda...you are definitely better than that.

Whether a kid has been here for 2 years, one year or since the summer, that is really immaterial if the natural talent and potential is simply not there. This won't matter if CBJ, Bear Bryant or Jon Gruden is the coach. Just because a kid is on the roster doesn't automatically mean he can be coached up to compete at this level.

You mention the names of Crowder, Kerbyson, Wiesman and Saulsberry above in addition to Foreman, JRM, R Jones and M Williams in a later post. Assuming for a moment each of these guys are excellent backups, coming up with but 8 names (7 of which are freshman or sophomores) as reserves with 22+ positions to be filled in the 2-deep sure sounds to me like the Vols have very, very little depth and would certainly justify CBJ's comments. This is also assuming Jones' comments were not taken out of context or he was not misquoted...he could have easily said " we are incredibly thin at most positions and damn near have zero depth".

IMO, your comments indicate an inclination to label Jones and the staff as being poor coaches or developers of talent. Whether that is indeed the case or not remains to be seen...I'm looking forward to seeing them work with the level of talent/potential that is coming to UT in the next few years. We will then have a far better sampling of their abilities to coach these kids up...until then, the veiled accusations are not justified and certainly don't reflect your obvious knowledge of the game.

JMO...

But don't bash Dooley because players look at the message board.

Signed,

sjt

I guess it's that wit that sjt always bragged about on Dooley. Possibly the orange pants.

 

[UrbanCryer]

I'm going to push back on this a bit. Recruiting rankings are not perfect, but we averaged 15th in the country per Rivals the last 4 years. That isn't bad at all.

And with a few exceptions, there has been almost no turnover...by which I mean players leaving, between Jones and Dooley.

What Kiffin did was deliberately run off several Fulmer players, some of whom were pretty good, and then recruit an unfortunate number (not ALL of his players, but a good many) of players that washed out like Nukeese Richardson and Bryce Brown, to name just two.

So that when Kiffin left there was even more turnover.

The person you responded to is correct and not "ignorant" at all....we DID have only 65 scholarship players left at the start of Dooley's term. We might as well have been on major probation. And it can be laid squarely on Kiffin.

But where I will agree with you is that even with the situation that bad, Dooley still completely under-performed as a coach. No question about that at all.

22 of dooleys players are no longer here

 

[WhiteRhino]

A. He's right.

B. Where are all the guys that get all upset at posters on here criticizing players? That is essentially what CBJ just did.

B. That is his job, not ours.

 

[utshawn]

According some posters, we have a roster full of talent. It's obvious that we do not, but you play the hand that your dealt.

Yep. What those posters don't realize is there is more to it than how many stars the team has when averaged together. You could have a team of 20 five star QBs to make those average stars look awesome but that team won't be very good product on the field. We don't have depth at certain key areas that we have to have it at to succeed. This is why there are walk ons playing certain positions.

 

[jimallvol]

He's just speaking the truth. But if he keeps recruiting the way he is we will be fine in a couple of yrs

 

[Volosaurus rex]

sjt,

I really enjoy the majority of your posts as you typically inject practical and reasonable viewpoints in your posts. You avoid putting on the Orange glasses or drink the kool-aid. But, in this case, I feel you are definitely offbase and could also be accused of having an agenda...you are definitely better than that.

Whether a kid has been here for 2 years, one year or since the summer, that is really immaterial if the natural talent and potential is simply not there. This won't matter if CBJ, Bear Bryant or Jon Gruden is the coach. Just because a kid is on the roster doesn't automatically mean he can be coached up to compete at this level.

You mention the names of Crowder, Kerbyson, Wiesman and Saulsberry above in addition to Foreman, JRM, R Jones and M Williams in a later post. Assuming for a moment each of these guys are excellent backups, coming up with but 8 names (7 of which are freshman or sophomores) as reserves with 22+ positions to be filled in the 2-deep sure sounds to me like the Vols have very, very little depth and would certainly justify CBJ's comments. This is also assuming Jones' comments were not taken out of context or he was not misquoted...he could have easily said " we are incredibly thin at most positions and damn near have zero depth".

IMO, your comments indicate an inclination to label Jones and the staff as being poor coaches or developers of talent. Whether that is indeed the case or not remains to be seen...I'm looking forward to seeing them work with the level of talent/potential that is coming to UT in the next few years. We will then have a far better sampling of their abilities to coach these kids up...until then, the veiled accusations are not justified and certainly don't reflect your obvious knowledge of the game.

JMO...

The bold-fonted sentence reflects my gut-level literary analysis of this statement. Based on everything to date which we have heard from Butch, I believe that it is more probable that he said something along the lines of "Compared to [Auburn, Alabama and Oregon], we have absolutely zero depth." If the original published source of this quote was John Adams or David Climer, I would feel even more confident that editorial license had been exercised in such a fashion as to cast Butch's perspective in the most negative light possible.

 

[sjt18]

IMO, your comments indicate an inclination to label Jones and the staff as being poor coaches or developers of talent. JMO...

Thanks for your tone.

I am more cautious than before in part because of Dooley. I want to see proof... and honestly platitudes and cliches irritate me a little when performance doesn't follow.

I do not wish to label this staff anything except champions. I am simply expressing what I believe to be true. They have not made the best they could of the talent they have. People keep complaining about speed but there are supposedly faster guys sitting behind supposedly slow guys... How is that not at least partly a coaching issue?

I am not willing to make a final judgment on these guys... not even close. I have specifically praised them for many things they are doing well. I will turn around a fight much more bitterly with anyone who suggests Jones shouldn't be given at least 3 years to prove himself. You turn coaches faster than that... you just sink deeper. Kiffin's departure probably set the program back 2 or 3 years with NO consideration to what Dooley did or didn't do.

Again, I have praised the staff too.

Someone should get alot of credit for developing Dobbs. He made understandable mistakes but at times the guy looked incredibly good. His throwing motion and arm strength were big surprises to me. His HS video didn't show that...

Someone should get the credit for Swafford. He's playing well above his talent level IMO. Sutton too. McNeal is playing better IMO. Coleman takes a lot of heat and he has been beaten some... but he's playing better.

Neal is probably running better than any point in his career as is Lane. I thought Smith would transfer but he looks like a legitimate player out there.

Coach Z imo is doing a very good job with his greenies.

BUT IMO the development and use of ALL of the available talent and especially the "best" units on the team... has been far less impressive. The D front 7 is full of size and talent. They stank it up vs MU. The OL is the most talented and experienced group on the team... and they're "soft" nine games into their Sr year with NFL draft status on the line?

FWIW, I would have liked to have seen Chaney and Pittman kept. That continuity probably would have short cut some tough times for Jones... and they may be better at their jobs than the new guys.

 

[sjt18]

But don't bash Dooley because players look at the message board.

Signed,

sjt

I guess it's that wit that sjt always bragged about on Dooley. Possibly the orange pants.

I already said I was wrong. I advocated too much cover for Dooley. FWIW, I think Jones IS a better coach in almost every way. What I don't know yet is if he's good enough. Being better than Dooley really isn't a very high bar, is it?

I haven't said anything that should hurt a players feelings... certainly nothing more than Jones calling them soft et al on camera for the "Vol Report"... and in his press conference... or him saying the team "has no depth" when there are guys working their tails off to "be that depth."

 

[sjt18]

To the guy who keeps claiming Dooley was a net positive influence on the program...please re-watch the TN-KY game from 2011. The one where a beat-down gang of 'cats with a WR behind center triumphed over our heavily favored yet thorougly-uninspired Vols. When apparently some of our key players weren't in the mood to go back to a lower-tier bowl.

In case you managed to block that out of your memory.

Dooley was a bad coach... and was fired. He took a 10 win team last year and won 5 games... and was fired.

I don't think Jones being "better than Dooley"... is a very high mark to expect. Do you? I would think that we are looking for MUCH better than Dooley. Wouldn't you?

Honestly... it makes me very uncomfortable after what we all just went through with Dooley when people say a mark equal in wins and pretty similar in outcomes to Dooley's first year... is acceptable, good, or even "great".

And another confession... I see some folks already making some excuses for the current staff that I wrongly made for the last one.

 

[sjt18]

According some posters, we have a roster full of talent. It's obvious that we do not, but you play the hand that your dealt.

Really? Who has said that? Can you cite a quote for me because I've seen absolutely NO ONE say that?

 

[VFL1953]

Dooley rebuilt the burnt down house and now CBJ is adding the fixures and decorating.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Seriously, stop. You're embarassing yourself. Dooley replaced the burned down house with a tent. Not one of the fancy ones from REI, the 19 dollar one from Bimart. :crazy:

 

[DD4ME]

I'm with SJT on one point for sure: this coaching staff like any is fallible on or off the field.
When you lose like we did at Mizzou there is plenty of blame to go around. That starts with the coaches and starters. Even when the starters were fresh they weren't doing much, especially the lines. I see no need to throw 60 or so unspecified players under the bus. Hell the defense finally held tough in the second half. UT has come out flat on the road everywhere we went but often played better in the second half even before the opponents starters were pulled. I put a lot of that on the coaches. Hell it was the players that voted to go back to pads this week.

 

[DD4ME]

Butch Jones does have talent to work with. Maybe not enough to beat OR or Bama but damn sure enough to handle an anemic UF, a depleted UGA, USC, VU, UK, and I'd even say a Mizzou team that lost to a team we beat.

Right now he's 1 of 4 with 3 final chances.

 

[DD4ME]

Hell we didn't even score a TD in the first half of what 3-4 games this year. Where is the back up offensive coordinator?

Maybe we were running all those 3 and outs to protect depth.

 

[DD4ME]

If UT happens to lose again I hope the reporters ask Butch how he feels about the opposing coach stealing his soul.