The Atlanta Braves

#232,904
#232,904
05_never_again said:
I'm all for going after Snit but he did have only 86 pitches when he came back for the 8th. It was by far not his most curious decision.
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Is it egregious? Probably not.

If it's Chris Sale or Grant Holmes, do I care? Probably not.

If it's in June and we have played 7 straight days, and we are trying to give the bullpen a breather? I don't mind.

But we got to remember this guy has never been a starter before and threw 100 more innings than he ever had last year. I'd rather save that extra inning in a close game against Philly or New York later in the year than waste that against Miami up 6-0 in the first week of April after a day off in start #2 of the year.

Especially since Lopez isn't coming back this year.
 
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#232,917
#232,917
GAVol said:
For older guys, they’re probably overblown. But there sure seem to be a lot of pitchers under 25 that get hurt after a big jump in innings.
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It's proven that the biggest thing that leads to arm injuries other than max effort velocity is year to year big increase in innings.
 
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#232,918
#232,918
zjcvols said:
I don't really care about the pitch count. I do care about the innings. There is a difference.
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I really think there has to be something to that. The stress isn’t as much throwing a dozen more pitches as it is cooling off and warming up one more time.
 
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#232,919
#232,919
Some guys are just going to have it. You can't teach Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux having the arms they did. Smoltz did the same exact routines as them and his arm gave out. Every arm has a shelf life. We bring it up all the time, but Brandon Beachy's arm probably wasn't going to survive whether he pitched 125 pitches that night or 100 pitches. I think there's an argument that the arms are too "babied" but I think kids throwing all year in middle/high school at max are the biggest issue. At least colleges have done a better job being more responsible.

But at the same time, I think it would be a major mistake to dismiss pitch counts or innings increase and ignore the science. Saying "Well, every arm is going to blow out so who cares" just isn't a viable long-term strategy and I think irresponsible to the players.
 
#232,920
#232,920
Spencer Strider works as hard as anyone in baseball with his body and mechanics. Probably wasn't a great idea to go from 133 innings to 198 innings (65 inning increase) when the division was locked up with three weeks to go in the season in 2023.
 
#232,921
#232,921
zjcvols said:
Spencer Strider works as hard as anyone in baseball with his body and mechanics. Probably wasn't a great idea to go from 133 innings to 198 innings (65 inning increase) when the division was locked up with three weeks to go in the season in 2023.
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Genuinely asking... What ramp up would be best there? Or what threshold would you want to see?
 
#232,922
#232,922
zjcvols said:
Spencer Strider works as hard as anyone in baseball with his body and mechanics. Probably wasn't a great idea to go from 133 innings to 198 innings (65 inning increase) when the division was locked up with three weeks to go in the season in 2023.
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He is under 6 ft and throws 100 mph. If by “working on his mechanics” you mean tweaking every little thing for max velocity then yes, absolutely.

Spencer Strider is the poster child for everything right and everything wrong in modern pitching. He is going to burn the absolute brightest and he is also going to break because the laws of physics demand it.
 
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#232,923
#232,923
005 said:
Genuinely asking... What ramp up would be best there? Or what threshold would you want to see?
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Baseball data guys say 30-40 innings year to year increase. I think it completely depends. I think if you have a guy in college who threw 100 innings a couple years, you don't have to be as strict. If you have a guy who had TJ and was never a starter in college or didn't throw a full season, I'd be super-duper careful. High school kid, probably start at 80 and go 30 innings each year. Also depends on the player, the type of pitcher they are, their mechanics, etc.
 
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#232,924
#232,924
I like to be data-driven but I admittedly lean much more toward "once they're ready, let them use the bullets they've got on a major league mound" and see what comes out in the wash. Too lazy to be actionable (as is everything being case by case), but as a fan who cares a lot about the game it's where I've been lately.

Maybe it's all light PTSD or ambivalence from the Strasburg of it all. And everyone being an armchair expert on limiting him and what it meant for his talent, let alone moral fiber.
 
#232,925
#232,925
zjcvols said:
Baseball data guys say 30-40 innings year to year increase. I think it completely depends. I think if you have a guy in college who threw 100 innings a couple years, you don't have to be as strict. If you have a guy who had TJ and was never a starter in college or didn't throw a full season, I'd be super-duper careful. High school kid, probably start at 80 and go 30 innings each year. Also depends on the player, the type of pitcher they are, their mechanics, etc.
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I think my issue is the counterfactual of acting like Strider-who-threw-173-innings would be in the clear.

Not to mention losing 25 innings of a great pitcher.
 
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