The Atlanta Braves . . . You can't lose 'em all.

#231,928
#231,928
zjcvols said:
Alex Anthopoulos and Brian Snitker had a literal goldmine on their hands in 2018. They had a superstar 1B, 4 prospects that would become stars (Acuna, Albies, Riley and Contreras) and the top farm system in baseball with a bevy of pitching prospects. They had no bad contracts on the book, a brand new stadium and ownership that was willing to increase the cofers to spend.

They've now had 5 first round exits in 7 years. They've only advanced twice in the postseason. They are now 1-6 in elimination games. Nobody was better set up for the future other than the Astros in 2018 and while the words "squandered" "failed" and "bungled" are too harsh considering six division titles, two 100+ win seasons and a World Series, they have probably reach...30% of what this could have been? No reason they couldn't have gone on an Astros like run (7 ALCS appearances, 6 division titles, 4 pennants and 2 World Series titles from 2017-2023) or maybe a little lower ended like the Dodgers (2016-2022, 6 division titles, 4 100+ win seasons, 5 NLCS, 3 pennants, 1 World Series title). Instead, 5 first round exits, and other than in 2018, all in embarrassing fashion. The worst part is that they think this is some sort of an accomplishment. They truly believe that this organization is full-proof, the train is perfectly aligned on the tracks and everything is great! We won that one World Series in 2021, that proves what truly genius people we have in the building!

There's no pressure to change because the ownership doesn't care as long as we make the playoffs, the media doesn't care because they're all a bunch of cowardly sycophants, the fans do care but they're not a New York or Philadelphia type crowd that demands change. There's no pressure on them because they're happy being good...not great. They are going to parade the excuses out. Ya know, we ran into a hot team and we just had too many injuries and it was just too daunting at the end to try and turnaround and win that series. Instead of looking inwardly and having some damned accountability, it's just good old fashioned "ah shucks" bad luck. That's what is really infuriating about this. I would have gladly taken what happened or missing the postseason if I actually thought this would affect the leadership of the organization in any sort of negative way. But it won't. They will trudge on and make excuses internally while the rest of the baseball world passes them by. It's the Braves way.
Click to expand...

Posted this the night after the Wild Card loss in game 2. Feels more relevant now.
 
#231,931
#231,931
LotteryPick said:
Because they haven’t sucked since 2017. What happened in 2016?
Click to expand...

The team openly quit on the manager in 2014, had multiple players that left said the clubhouse wasn't good and they kept Fredi for another 1.5 years after that season. The guy who fired him is no longer here in Coppy. We've had 3 managers since 1991. Snit has this job until he retires.
 
#231,933
#231,933
Carp said:
If we were 4-0 right now would it make a difference in your opinion?
Click to expand...
I can’t speak for Z and there’s no need to rehash history a million times over, but no.

I have been concerned about the quality of this teams ABs/general baseball IQ for years, including during the record setting 2023 season.

Their collective approach to scoring runs, over time, is not a successful proposition when the chips are down and it’s best v best.

They lack care or awareness (or both!), of how to compete within at-bats. They lack urgency in all facets.

The outcome doesn’t make the process successful/unsuccessful. You control the processes in putting yourself in a position to be as successful as possible as many times as possible. This group of players does not do that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Plecoptera, mr.checkerboards and zjcvols
#231,934
#231,934
Carp said:
If we were 4-0 right now would it make a difference in your opinion?
Click to expand...

Well, that means they came out with some urgency, so while yes, I'd have the same opinion because even if they were 4-0, this group collectively ***** its pants come playoff time, I'd at least feel better that the team and manager came out ready to play and focused after a dismal (by Braves' standards) season in 2024.
 
#231,936
#231,936
Carp said:
If we were 4-0 right now would it make a difference in your opinion?
Click to expand...
For me, its the massive instance on cutting payroll. Kelenic and Arcia arent running around out there on our rivals. WS contenders have pens stacked with guys throwing 100. We are bargin bin shopping
 
#231,937
#231,937
TBrown said:
On the plus side, the rotation is awesome and we will run into some long balls.
Click to expand...

Strider/Sale/Schwellenbach is so fun. Hopefully Lopez works out whatever kinks he has and is healthy. AJSS had some hope and I still think Waldrep can be a stud. I hope Snit isn't a moron and when Strider comes back, Holmes gets middle relief innings and not "Oh we're down 8-1 can you eat innings for me"
 
#231,938
#231,938
I think the ownership is to blame. We’ve only lost in FA. It’s pretty obvious the Braves have a policy against competitive bidding in FA. We aren’t willing to overpay, even if it’s only an overpay for that period in time. A lot of these FA contracts end up being fine with the inflation of contracts. All they’ve done is bleed talent. That’s no way to sustain winning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zjcvols
#231,939
#231,939
mr.checkerboards said:
For me, its the massive instance on cutting payroll. Kelenic and Arcia arent running around out there on our rivals. WS contenders have pens stacked with guys throwing 100. We are bargin bin shopping
Click to expand...
I’ll give a little leeway on Kelenic since we know he’s not getting ABs once Acuña is back, but it’s hard to argue with the rest of that. It’s inexplicable that they didn’t do something about SS about 300 ABs ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zjcvols, LotteryPick and mr.checkerboards
#231,940
#231,940
mr.checkerboards said:
For me, its the massive instance on cutting payroll. Kelenic and Arcia arent running around out there on our rivals. WS contenders have pens stacked with guys throwing 100. We are bargin bin shopping
Click to expand...

Kelenic is actually a solid 4th OF and just holding a spot until Acuna gets back. I'm fine with it.

I understood what they were thinking with the rotation. They hoped Strider coming back and then one of Ian/AJSS/Waldrep/Elder could be an average 5th starter and not be a disaster.

What is absolutely inexcusable is Arcia coming back as the starting SS and the fact they did zero to replace Minter/Jimenez. I'm all for saving money for the pen, but if you're going to save money on the pen, you better spend elsewhere, and they didn't.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Plecoptera
#231,941
#231,941
The moves AA made in 2021 at the deadline, which seemed like nothing at the time but ended up likely being the difference between winning and not winning (or even making it) to the WS, went to his head. He thinks he's the smartest guy in the room and either 1) doesn't have to do anything or 2) these minor tweaks he makes lead to big impacts that nobody else sees at the time, but eventually everyone will see how much of a genius he is. He also got burned making big moves in Toronto and may or may not have had some autonomy taken away from him, and I think is gun-shy about it now.

Winning the WS and the playoff run during the COVID year kind of obscure this, but remember those are the only seasons where the Braves have won a playoff series since 2001. Despite this roster, and despite winning a title a few years ago, this franchise hasn't had much playoff success at all over the last 25 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zjcvols
#231,942
#231,942
Weezy said:
I think the ownership is to blame. We’ve only lost in FA. It’s pretty obvious the Braves have a policy against competitive bidding in FA. We aren’t willing to overpay, even if it’s only an overpay for that period in time. A lot of these FA contracts end up being fine with the inflation of contracts. All they’ve done is bleed talent. That’s no way to sustain winning.
Click to expand...

Whoever's decision it was to reset the luxury tax, whether AA or Liberty (and I'll be honest, I don't think it's Liberty), should have to come out and face the music
 
#231,943
#231,943
05_never_again said:
The moves AA made in 2021 at the deadline, which seemed like nothing at the time but ended up likely being the difference between winning and not winning (or even making it) to the WS, went to his head. He thinks he's the smartest guy in the room and either 1) doesn't have to do anything or 2) these minor tweaks he makes lead to big impacts that nobody else sees at the time, but eventually everyone will see how much of a genius he is. He also got burned making big moves in Toronto and may or may not have had some autonomy taken away from him, and I think is gun-shy about it now.

Winning the WS and the playoff run during the COVID year kind of obscure this, but remember those are the only seasons where the Braves have won a playoff series since 2001. Despite this roster, and despite winning a title a few years ago, this franchise hasn't had much playoff success at all over the last 25 years.
Click to expand...

They've lost their last 6 elimination games.

It might have been @TBrown or @LotteryPick that said this, but basically it was we operate like the Rays except we don't have the Rays' FO. Which makes sense since AA spent two years with Friedman in LA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 05_never_again
#231,944
#231,944
zjcvols said:
They've lost their last 6 elimination games.

It might have been @TBrown or @LotteryPick that said this, but basically it was we operate like the Rays except we don't have the Rays' FO. Which makes sense since AA spent two years with Friedman in LA.
Click to expand...
We also don't have a manager that is truly on the same page as the FO either, like Tampa does.
 
#231,945
#231,945
Also I wouldn't be so upset with the 0-4 start if LA and Philly wasn't on our schedule over the next two weeks. If LA sweeps them and they only win 3/6 against Miami/Philly, that's a 3-10 start...
 
#231,946
#231,946
TBrown said:
The outcome doesn’t make the process successful/unsuccessful. You control the processes in putting yourself in a position to be as successful as possible as many times as possible. This group of players does not do that.
Click to expand...
Understanding this is the difference between “smart” people and actual intelligence. The “outcome does not signify process quality” logic holds true in every facet of life. It also makes this organizations failure to understand it more inexcusable because this isn’t some baseball da Vinci code they have to crack. I tell my work teams all the time that winning is a result but being a winner is a process. If we focus on executing the process at the highest level, the desired result becomes more likely. And that’s the goal. Increase the likelihood that our team is successful. It’s the same for a batter or a business.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zjcvols
#231,947
#231,947
I can handle the weird drafting strategy, I can handle some of the inactivity during the offseason, but the guys not getting any better or seemingly giving a crap is inexcusable.

AA makes his moves based off an organization that can really develop and there is no development currently.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zjcvols
#231,950
#231,950
The Orange Pants said:
Understanding this is the difference between “smart” people and actual intelligence. The “outcome does not signify process quality” logic holds true in every facet of life. It also makes this organizations failure to understand it more inexcusable because this isn’t some baseball da Vinci code they have to crack. I tell my work teams all the time that winning is a result but being a winner is a process. If we focus on executing the process at the highest level, the desired result becomes more likely. And that’s the goal. Increase the likelihood that our team is successful. It’s the same for a batter or a business.
Click to expand...
4 possibilities:

1) Good process, good outcome
2) Good process, bad outcome
3) Bad process, good outcome
4) Bad process, bad outcome

The biggest issue that I see a lot in sports (and life) is that people are very rarely, almost never, held accountable for #3. "All's well that ends well" is a powerful thing, and nobody wants to rock the boat when you're winning, money is coming in, etc., even if the process is flawed in some way. I think that's been going on with the Braves for the last few years.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store

Back
Top