the franchise

#1
RespectTradition

RespectTradition

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#1
Howdy,

I have a proposition.

What if we passed a law (mebbe need an amendment) that limits the franchise in federal elections to those who pay net positive taxes? That way, the people who actually pay for what the government does (oversimplification, I know) are the ones who get to say how the money is spent. Anyone can be eligible as long as you do not receive welfare/subsidies/ss, etc and pay positive taxes, ie, not taking so many reductions or credits, etc that you wind up owing nothing or even getting more back than you paid in.

Oh, and let's also include anyone who works for the fed govt too. My boss certainly doesn't have to ultimately answer to me. Choosing a life of 'Public Service' should be a sacrifice, otherwise get a real productive job.

What say you?
 
#2
#2
You've missed NEOCONS threads on this subject huh?

As to your proposition, I also am sick of professional welfare recipients, but I do not favor disenfranchisement. Dangerous road to start down if one is a fan of freedom.
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#3
#3
Two questions JV:

1)
Does that mean you equate the franchise with freedom?

I ask that question because I don't equate them. I think that a majority can be as oppressive as dictator. If you are in the minority, like me, then you have virtually no political power and therefore are at the mercy of those in power.

Btw, when I say I am in the minority, I am not talking about race. I am totally indifferent to race. I try to just see individuals. No, I mean that neither of the main political parties represent my beliefs. I can't stand democans or republicrats.

2) wouldn't the exercise of the franchise be a personal choice?

No one would be disenfranchised under my proposal. You simply make a choice. Vote and pay your 'fair share' or be a moocher and don't vote.
 
#4
#4
RespectTradition said:
Howdy,

I have a proposition.

What if we passed a law (mebbe need an amendment) that limits the franchise in federal elections to those who pay net positive taxes? That way, the people who actually pay for what the government does (oversimplification, I know) are the ones who get to say how the money is spent. Anyone can be eligible as long as you do not receive welfare/subsidies/ss, etc and pay positive taxes, ie, not taking so many reductions or credits, etc that you wind up owing nothing or even getting more back than you paid in.

Oh, and let's also include anyone who works for the fed govt too. My boss certainly doesn't have to ultimately answer to me. Choosing a life of 'Public Service' should be a sacrifice, otherwise get a real productive job.

What say you?
Click to expand...

I LIKE you!!!!

Welcome to volnation.
 
#5
#5
And no, I have not read any of Neocon's posts here. I don't know anything about his politics except that his name implies he is a neoconservative. And as anyone knows and can easily demonstrate, neoconservatives hate freedom about as much as so-called liberals do.
 
#7
#7
eh, as long as you don't go calling me racist at every turn we're cool.
 
#9
#9
RespectTradition said:
Two questions JV:

1)
Does that mean you equate the franchise with freedom?

I ask that question because I don't equate them. I think that a majority can be as oppressive as dictator. If you are in the minority, like me, then you have virtually no political power and therefore are at the mercy of those in power.

Btw, when I say I am in the minority, I am not talking about race. I am totally indifferent to race. I try to just see individuals. No, I mean that neither of the main political parties represent my beliefs. I can't stand democans or republicrats.

2) wouldn't the exercise of the franchise be a personal choice?

No one would be disenfranchised under my proposal. You simply make a choice. Vote and pay your 'fair share' or be a moocher and don't vote.
Click to expand...


I really do understand the frustration. I share it. Yes, I do equate having a vote as essential to freedom. I respectfully say what you are proposing is similar to a poll tax. We've been down that road.
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#11
#11
I understand that position. How then can we fix the wealth redistribution problem? (you may not consider it a problem, but I am assuming)
 
#12
#12
RespectTradition said:
Give me time, you will hate me! :)

I have that effect on people. :p
Click to expand...

No time needed here.

When one is a proponent to disenfranchise citizens that is all that is required from me.

EDIT: What do you mean 'fair share'?

Nevermind, I'm already done with you. No need to respond.
 
Last edited:
#14
#14
trevols81 said:
No time needed here.

When one is a proponent to disenfranchise citizens that is all that is required from me.
Click to expand...

Do you think people convicted of a felony should be allowed to vote? Twelve year olds? People in mental institutes? Or do you truly hold to the idea that disenfranchisement is evil? I bet you think disenfranchisement is situationally acceptable. I am simply discussing a different situation. One where people get to choose to vote whenever they want the franchise back.
 
#15
#15
RespectTradition said:
Do you think people convicted of a felony should be allowed to vote? Twelve year olds? People in mental institutes? Or do you truly hold to the idea that disenfranchisement is evil? I bet you think disenfranchisement is situationally acceptable. I am simply discussing a different situation. One where people get to choose to vote whenever they want the franchise back.
Click to expand...

Okay. I edited my post but I will disregard that for the time being. When did I ever even mention 12 year olds? Assumptions are what make you look a tad foolish.
 
#16
#16
trevols81 said:
Okay. I edited my post but I will disregard that for the time being. When did I ever even mention 12 year olds? Assumptions are what make you look a tad foolish.
Click to expand...

12 year olds are citizens. Your statement appeared to say that it is never acceptable to deprive any citizen of the franchise. Sorry if I misunderstood.
 
#17
#17
RespectTradition said:
I understand that position. How then can we fix the wealth redistribution problem? (you may not consider it a problem, but I am assuming)
Click to expand...

I would love to put a work/community service requirement for assistance. Workfare if you will. Also I could be persuaded to apply time limits similar to unemployment. Wouldn't want it to be too short. Anyone can get bad breaks. It's the career welfare recipients that irk me. I don't agree with those wanting straight up elimination. Sounds good, but the result of such a move would result in an unprecedented crime wave. We don't have enough cops to contain the crime wave of that magnitude or enough prison cells.
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#19
#19
RespectTradition said:
12 year olds are citizens. Your statement appeared to say that it is never acceptable to deprive any citizen of the franchise. Sorry if I misunderstood.
Click to expand...

And they are allowed to vote? I assumed you knew the basic laws of the constitution considering that you want to amend them. My mistake.
 
#20
#20
I don't understand your apparent anger or your reasoning. I am not saying 12 year olds currently have the right to vote. I use them as an example of where we have wisely chosen not to give them the franchise. If you agree that NOT giving them the franchise is a good idea, then you agree they should be disenfranchised. Which means you agree that there are cases when disenfranchisement is good and not automatically evil.
 
#21
#21
JayVols said:
I would love to put a work/community service requirement for assistance. Workfare if you will. Also I could be persuaded to apply time limits similar to unemployment. Wouldn't want it to be too short. Anyone can get bad breaks. It's the career welfare recipients that irk me. I don't agree with those wanting straight up elimination. Sounds good, but the result of such a move would result in an unprecedented crime wave. We don't have enough cops to contain the crime wave of that magnitude or enough prison cells.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

Good stuff. I think at the very least most reasonable people see the need for safety nets to exist, though the execution of those things is what's up for debate.

The bottom line for me, being perfectly appreciative of capitalism, is that for a healthy system to exist there must be a certain level of unemployment, i.e. not every able bodied person can have a job in a healthy economy, and that's just the way it is.

The whole career welfare recipient, or welfare queen thing is very, very overblown. Are there people who take advantage of it? Absolutely. It's like banking regulations; does the fact that a few abuse the system, and even test its strength from time to time mean we should just say "**** having any rules"? No.
 
#23
#23
There are always jobs that need doing. Picking up trash off the side of the road, painting the walls at schools, etc. At the very least, let's get some return on our investment.
 
#24
#24
RespectTradition said:
There are always jobs that need doing. Picking up trash off the side of the road, painting the walls at schools, etc. At the very least, let's get some return on our investment.
Click to expand...

Pretty much, more or less jobs where there probably isn't a buck to be made. I was thinking more along the lines of a mix of privately and publicly run volunteer programs.
 
#25
#25
RespectTradition said:
I don't understand your apparent anger or your reasoning. I am not saying 12 year olds currently have the right to vote. I use them as an example of where we have wisely chosen not to give them the franchise. If you agree that NOT giving them the franchise is a good idea, then you agree they should be disenfranchised. Which means you agree that there are cases when disenfranchisement is good and not automatically evil.
Click to expand...

Disnfranchisement(sic) is not inherently good or bad but to be a law-abiding, legal citizen who is of age to vote in the country which they reside to be denied their vote is unequivocally evil.
 
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