The great global warming swindle

#2
#2
"I think that most healthy thing is to ignore it. Just like we do the squid." -Peter Griffin
 
#3
#3
That was an interesting video. It seemed like a lot of its basis was that CO2 changes lagged temperature changes through history (according to ice core samples). But, I had always read that the time scales were indistinguishable within their respective time errors. But, it raised some points that I want to follow up on. Also, I found a few things kind of funny...they kept on getting their strong anti-man-made-global warming arguments from just a few people...then they would make a claim..switch to some acclaimed scientist who would say something similar to that claim...and the easy inference is that this person feels the same as all the others..but in fact, if you just listen to what they said, it was something that any person who believes in attribution of global warming to man would agree with (a good example was Professor Wunsch from MIT's oceanography department).

Thanks for the post.
 
#4
#4
OK, so after some reading, I discovered that the error bars on the ice core samples are on the order of hundreds of years. But, for example, the 800 year lag is considered to be a lag...but +/- 400 years ... but still a lag.

Well..this made me think...if it is accepted that CO2 levels lagged behind temperature...which it is even among the supporters of global warming theories...then why did this guy in the movie make such a big deal about it. Then, it hit me, .... I had been sucked into the movie...wasn't thinking critically...accepted what they were saying without thinking much about it...they were like OH BOY...LOOK..CO2 has never caused climate change before...why would it now...in fact...temperature rises (from natural fluctuations) has caused CO2 to rise in the past..CO2 is a temperature effect ... not the other way around ...

The obvious question is what is different now? I think that we can all agree that these osicllations in temperature are due to natural fluctuations (in the earth's orbit, for example). So, I talked to the prof of my global warming class about this today...to ask what the deal is with this issue, and it helped me see the other side of the story pretty clearly. The other camp (those who believe that global warming can be attributed to man) also believe that CO2 lags temperature. We know that the solubility of CO2 in the ocean decreases with temperature .. and ... increasing temperatures release more CO2 from, for example, melting permafrost. They feel that they can show through modeling that the amount of temperature increase from orbit fluctuations would actually be much smaller..but as the CO2 is released, it produces positive feedback that continues increasing temperatures. Thus...the orbital temperature rise is instigating more temperature rise through CO2 release. However, as the solar forcing drops away as the orbit changes, temperatures cool...and the ocean can hold more CO2 ... and the earth will uptake more CO2...so temperatures begin to drop and CO2 will drop along with it.

The difference now is that we are magnifying this effect by adding more CO2 to the atmosphere. The small temperature rises we talk about from global warming are a result of this increased greenhouse effect. So, you will have this temperature rise...and then...when the orbit is in the "hot" region again...the temperature rise can be expected to be even more at first...and then this will release even more CO2..which will cause even higher temperatures.

Oh well..this was long....but I just wanted to show this side of the story..and say that I am a bit ashamed that I let the movie get by me without figuring out the answers to these questions that were bugging me sooner!
 
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