The new defense against the onside kick

#1
Gandalf

Gandalf

The Orange/White Wizard
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#1
Saw this with Okie state - really brilliant situational awareness to save their butts.

Going into an onside kick, a receiving team player signals for a fair catch. Then he has to be given the chance to catch the ball without being hit.


In the above game between Texas Tech and Oklahoma State, an Oklahoma State player called for a fair catch on a Texas Tech onside kick. Tech recovered the kick, but since the State player was bumped on the play Tech was called for fair catch interference (15 yard penalty) and State got the ball. Talk about using the rulebook to your advantage and a massive momentum swing!

Has this always been in the rules? I am sure this was not the intent. We should have our players prepped to do this if the situation arises (though doubtful refs would agree against Bama).
 
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#4
#4
According to the NCAA rule, the ball CAN touch the ground and a fair catch be called. I am not sure why other teams haven't exploited this rule in the past. Here is the rule:

"During a free kick, a player of the receiving team in position to receive the ball has the same kick-catch and fair-catch protection whether the ball is kicked directly off the tee or is immediately driven to the ground, strikes the ground once and goes into the air in the manner of the ball kicked directly off the tee.”
 
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#5
#5
willinhf said:
Most onside kicks hit the ground first then pop into the air. Fair catch does not count once the ball hits the ground.

So—a pop up onside kick can be fair caught. But if hits ground then pops up, cannot be fair caught.
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This is not exactly true, if the ball hits the ground once and goes into the air it can be fair caught. If it hits the ground twice it cannot. Heard an explanation yesterday.
 
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#6
#6
Gandalf said:
Saw this with Okie state - really brilliant situational awareness to save their butts.

Going into an onside kick, a receiving team player signals for a fair catch. Then he has to be given the chance to catch the ball without being hit.


In the above game between Texas Tech and Oklahoma State, an Oklahoma State player called for a fair catch on a Texas Tech onside kick. Tech recovered the kick, but since the State player was bumped on the play Tech was called for fair catch interference (15 yard penalty) and State got the ball. Talk about using the rulebook to your advantage and a massive momentum swing!

Has this always been in the rules? I am sure this was not the intent. We should have our players prepped to do this if the situation arises (though doubtful refs would agree against Bama).
Click to expand...


Not this thread again!
 
#8
#8
V@l4Life said:
According to the NCAA rule, the ball CAN touch the ground and a fair catch be called. I am not sure why other teams haven't exploited this rule in the past. Here is the rule:

"During a free kick, a player of the receiving team in position to receive the ball has the same kick-catch and fair-catch protection whether the ball is kicked directly off the tee or is immediately driven to the ground, strikes the ground once and goes into the air in the manner of the ball kicked directly off the tee.”
Click to expand...

I would think "...a player of the receiving team in position to receive the ball..." is a key part of the rule. That phrase tells me that not just anyone on the receiving team can signal a fair catch to keep the kicking team from recovering the ball. The referees have to judge him to be in position to do so.
 
#9
#9
Hacksaw said:
I would think "...a player of the receiving team in position to receive the ball..." is a key part of the rule. That phrase tells me that not just anyone on the receiving team can signal a fair catch to keep the kicking team from recovering the ball. The referees have to judge him to be in position to do so.
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If you have 5 guys within 20 yds of one another waiting for the kick... then that's not really a problem.
 
#10
#10
Hacksaw said:
I would think "...a player of the receiving team in position to receive the ball..." is a key part of the rule. That phrase tells me that not just anyone on the receiving team can signal a fair catch to keep the kicking team from recovering the ball. The referees have to judge him to be in position to do so.
Click to expand...

Posts #5 and #7 in this thread are all that really matters. I suspect we will see more of the spinner style on side kicks. But a fair catch would have prevented the UF recovery.
 
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#11
#11
sjt18 said:
If you have 5 guys within 20 yds of one another waiting for the kick... then that's not really a problem.
Click to expand...

What I'm saying is that those 5 guys, even close together, wouldn't necessarily be judged to be in a position to make the catch. In the video example, only one Oklahoma State player signaled the fair catch and he was the only one in close enough proximity to the ball to do so. I don't know, based on the language of the rule, if his teammate a few yards to his right would have been judged to be in a position to receive the ball. I could be wrong, that's just my guess as to how the refs would apply the rule.
 
#12
#12
Hacksaw said:
What I'm saying is that those 5 guys, even close together, wouldn't necessarily be judged to be in a position to make the catch. In the video example, only one Oklahoma State player signaled the fair catch and he was the only one in close enough proximity to the ball to do so. I don't know, based on the language of the rule, if his teammate a few yards to his right would have been judged to be in a position to receive the ball. I could be wrong, that's just my guess as to how the refs would apply the rule.
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It would definitely make for a difficult ruling.
 
#13
#13
37620VOL said:
Posts #5 and #7 in this thread are all that really matters. I suspect we will see more of the spinner style on side kicks. But a fair catch would have prevented the UF recovery.
Click to expand...
I agree but the spinner or grounder type kicks are more unpredictable. They often don't make 10 yds or else contact coverage guys too early. At some point coaches adopted the idea that the high hop kick was most effective.
 
#14
#14
37620VOL said:
Posts #5 and #7 in this thread are all that really matters. I suspect we will see more of the spinner style on side kicks. But a fair catch would have prevented the UF recovery.
Click to expand...

You might be right about the UF play. I sure wish we would have thought to give it a try.
 
#15
#15
V@l4Life said:
According to the NCAA rule, the ball CAN touch the ground and a fair catch be called. I am not sure why other teams haven't exploited this rule in the past. Here is the rule:

"During a free kick, a player of the receiving team in position to receive the ball has the same kick-catch and fair-catch protection whether the ball is kicked directly off the tee or is immediately driven to the ground, strikes the ground once and goes into the air in the manner of the ball kicked directly off the tee.”
Click to expand...
I don’t think all kickoffs are considered free kicks outside of high school ball
 
#17
#17
sjt18 said:
I agree but the spinner or grounder type kicks are more unpredictable. They often don't make 10 yds or else contact coverage guys too early. At some point coaches adopted the idea that the high hop kick was most effective.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the grounder as it goes 10 yards to quickly and seems to be an easy recovery. I can only recall seeing the spinner recently, so I thought it was a newer "invention". I most recently saw it watching an NFL game and it nearly worked.

I also think the proper strategy against the "poppup" onside was the one NC used against App St. Destroy all the players with their eyes in the air.
 
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#19
#19
UT_Dutchman said:
This is not exactly true, if the ball hits the ground once and goes into the air it can be fair caught. If it hits the ground twice it cannot. Heard an explanation yesterday.
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Also has to be caught by the player making the signal. Not always easy when the ball is just kicked
 
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#22
#22
Volintheswamp said:
Wow…. Good awareness and knowledge of the rules.
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Not by the refs. Go read the requirement for a VALID. Faircatch signal. Not even close. You have to extend one arm above the head and wave it side to side MORE THAN ONCE. His windmill action is not enough.

Faircatch protections not in play here BUT BUT BUT Kick catch protections are and that is hard to assess if the ball goes beyond and stays beyond the line.

If it was properly called an invalid Faircatch signal the ball would have been dead IF he caught it.

On phone or would post the RULE6 to back this up.
 
#24
#24
V@l4Life said:
According to the NCAA rule, the ball CAN touch the ground and a fair catch be called. I am not sure why other teams haven't exploited this rule in the past. Here is the rule:

"During a free kick, a player of the receiving team in position to receive the ball has the same kick-catch and fair-catch protection whether the ball is kicked directly off the tee or is immediately driven to the ground, strikes the ground once and goes into the air in the manner of the ball kicked directly off the tee.”
Click to expand...
Learn something new every day.

Which ref counts the number of times the ball hits the ground? Would that be the line judge?
 
#25
#25
wow never thought of waving for a fair catch lol. That's pretty brilliant. Also, never seen so many onside kicks recovered before.
 
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