The Politics forum: we are a microcosm of the world's problems

#1
NEO

NEO

Eat at Joe's
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Sep 14, 2009
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#1
Even here, with almost all of us bein Vol fans, we cannot agree on hardly anything and seem to choose sides and elect to argue instead of finding middle ground.

I find it sad that a group of guys on here, including myself, cannot seem to learn more about each other and stop labeling.

Could we as a group just begin to find some middle ground on things? Let someone know when they have a good idea. Be open to questioning your own beliefs. And working together to find common ground.

If we can't do it, in a smaller setting like this, then the world is truly doomed.
 
#7
#7
I agree, but a key factor is the anonymity of message boards. It is easy to take extreme positions on topics that we have limited experience with, or to paste in stuff we wouldn't actually say face to face. Self editing, reading body language, simply being polite are ways that people come to that middle ground. Since we don't have that it is easy to stake a claim and defend it to the death.

Some day someone should organize an actual real world meeting...
 
#8
#8
YorkVol said:
I agree, but a key factor is the anonymity of message boards. It is easy to take extreme positions on topics that we have limited experience with, or to paste in stuff we wouldn't actually say face to face. Self editing, reading body language, simply being polite are ways that people come to that middle ground. Since we don't have that it is easy to stake a claim and defend it to the death.

Some day someone should organize an actual real world meeting...
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Anonymity brings out the worst in people sometimes. I try my best to not say anything here that I would not say to someone's face. It can be hard sometimes. I have edited my posts more than once because I felt I came across too rude or hateful. It isn't easy and sometimes I forget.
 
#9
#9
Sometimes, I think, some posters are reacting to their own opinion of the poster and not the actual post.
 
#10
#10
RespectTradition said:
Anonymity brings out the worst in people sometimes. I try my best to not say anything here that I would not say to someone's face. It can be hard sometimes. I have edited my posts more than once because I felt I came across too rude or hateful. It isn't easy and sometimes I forget.
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Which is why I have such a long ignore lost, it helps me stay civil!
 
#11
#11
Here's a start. Post what you believe. Refrain from posting what you assume others believe. Avoid the temptation to apply motives to others. Attack the argument and not the poster; or worse, some group you believe the poster belongs too.
 
#13
#13
volinbham said:
Here's a start. Post what you believe. Refrain from posting what you assume others believe. Avoid the temptation to apply motives to others. Attack the argument and not the poster; or worse, some group you believe the poster belongs too.
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Are you sure you're not a mod? :)
 
#17
#17
NEOCON said:
Even here, with almost all of us bein Vol fans, we cannot agree on hardly anything and seem to choose sides and elect to argue instead of finding middle ground.
Click to expand...

What's funny is that the Congress that we do have does pretty much agree on everything. I wonder how many people take the time to actually discover where politicians on different sides of the aisle are disagreeing on these issues.

Where are these people disagreeing? Are they disagreeing at the core of issues or around the edges? More importantly, who are these people influenced and lobbied by? Do entirely different groups lobby them or is it largely the same one?

IMO, to understand what is happening, you have to understand what people's incentives are and what they are motivated by.
 
#18
#18
I think it will be years before people may start listening and working together when it comes to politics. As it is, there are too many people that are "republican" or "democrat" and will not listen to anything the other side says. Until that changes, we'll be completely divided and unable to get anything done.
 
#19
#19
05_never_again said:
What's funny is that the Congress that we do have does pretty much agree on everything. I wonder how many people take the time to actually discover where politicians on different sides of the aisle are disagreeing on these issues.

Where are these people disagreeing? Are they disagreeing at the core of issues or around the edges? More importantly, who are these people influenced and lobbied by? Do entirely different groups lobby them or is it largely the same one?

IMO, to understand what is happening, you have to understand what people's incentives are and what they are motivated by.
Click to expand...


I think this is at least somewhat true. It seems that
when bills go throught the house or the senate its usually not the bill itself but the riders that are attached post facto that most disagree with no???
 
#21
#21
OsbourneBROS83 said:
I think this is at least somewhat true. It seems that
when bills go throught the house or the senate its usually not the bill itself but the riders that are attached post facto that most disagree with no???
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That's not what I mean. That certainly happens but isn't the real issue.

These politicians are bought off by the same establishment. To nobody's surprise, they enact policies for the benefit of that establishment, at the expense of the populace if necessary.

Look at the presidential election-defining issues of the last several years. Did Bush and Kerry have different positions on the Iraq War? Did McCain and Obama have different positions on TARP? On whether or not a stimulus package would work? On illegal immigration? If you bothered to watch the 2008 VP debate, you would have discovered that Sarah Palin, who has a reputation as a strong social conservative, had an identical position to Joe Biden on gay marriage (both stated they believed in civil unions). Do Republicans and Democrats have any difference whatsoever on how to deal with Iran?

These people are all cut from the same cloth. The only differences are tactical (the rhetoric and demographics they pander to are different). On policy, there are no real substantive differences and in some areas they are identical. You don't have a choice.
 
#22
#22
NEOCON said:
Even here, with almost all of us bein Vol fans, we cannot agree on hardly anything and seem to choose sides and elect to argue instead of finding middle ground.

I find it sad that a group of guys on here, including myself, cannot seem to learn more about each other and stop labeling.

Could we as a group just begin to find some middle ground on things? Let someone know when they have a good idea. Be open to questioning your own beliefs. And working together to find common ground.

If we can't do it, in a smaller setting like this, then the world is truly doomed.
Click to expand...

Middle ground is not good. Middle ground = $16 trillion in debt.
 
#23
#23
05_never_again said:
If you bothered to watch the 2008 VP debate, you would have discovered that Sarah Palin, who has a reputation as a strong social conservative, had an identical position to Joe Biden on gay marriage (both stated they believed in civil unions). Do Republicans and Democrats have any difference whatsoever on how to deal with Iran?
Click to expand...

Not real sure why you have to be a condesending ass when you reply back. I was just trying to add to the conversation. I am fully aware that politicians often are all about the establishment, and not about their constituents.
 
#24
#24
OsbourneBROS83 said:
Not real sure why you have to be a condesending ass when you reply back. I was just trying to add to the conversation. I am fully aware that politicians often are all about the establishment, and not about their constituents.
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Nothing contributes to a compromise thread like "condescending ass."

FTR, I didn't see much condescension in his post.
 
#25
#25
DinkinFlicka said:
Nothing contributes to a compromise thread like "condescending ass."

FTR, I didn't see much condescension in his post.
Click to expand...

See the prior post for the contribution, not sure why you singled me out and not all the other great contributions that have been made.
 
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