the secret to Tennessee's amazing defense?

[Darth_Vol]

Just take a look at the SEC scoreboard last night:
Texas A&M 51 Georgia 54
Arkansas 53 Vandy 55
Alabama 51 Auburn 50
Miss. St. 64 Ole Miss 62

Either every team in the SEC plays awesome defense, or most every offense in the conference is pathetic....

 

[Hoya Saxa]

Just take a look at the SEC scoreboard last night:
Texas A&M 51 Georgia 54
Arkansas 53 Vandy 55
Alabama 51 Auburn 50
Miss. St. 64 Ole Miss 62

Either every team in the SEC plays awesome defense, or most every offense in the conference is pathetic....

Maybe CViv is secretly the offensive coordinator for the SEC.

 

[volfanhill]

Um

 

[madtownvol]

Wow, do you ever get thirsty sipping from that always half empty glass?

LSU put up 84 against KY last Sunday (and beat Miss St. 71-69 last week); not to mention the completely inept LV offense scored 75 on this low scoring night (plus 77 in a losing effort in their last outing).

But heaven forbid anyone suggest that there might be some bright spots in the LV program.

 

[armchair]

Wow, do you ever get thirsty sipping from that always half empty glass?

LSU put up 84 against KY last Sunday (and beat Miss St. 71-69 last week); not to mention the completely inept LV offense scored 75 on this low scoring night (plus 77 in a losing effort in their last outing).

But heaven forbid anyone suggest that there might be some bright spots in the LV program.

of great offenses in the SEC, which might be true. There is no doubt a big gap between most SEC teams and ND/UConn, but then there is a big gap between most teams/leagues and those two schools

 

[LadyVol1908]

Idk what the secret is....but its a top 5 defense in the country secret! Some people never give up! Smh

 

[Darth_Vol]

(and beat Miss St. 71-69 last week);

In double OT, which you conveniently leave out. Of all the league teams that played last night, over half of them couldn't break the 50's. There is a lot of ugly basketball in the conference this year.

South Carolina is a good offensive team. Tennessee is finally starting to shoot the ball better. Kentucky and A&M have some weapons, but neither offense is really prolific. The offenses for the rest of the conference, to put it bluntly, suck. This is the biggest reason Tennessee has a reasonable chance to contend for the SEC title...

 

[CannonVol80]

I'm curious. Do those of you who feel the SEC is such an offensive quagmire watch any other conference teams (other than UConn and Notre Dame) play against each other?

Is it possible that the SEC teams, as a whole, play better defense than a number of other conferences? Looking at the top 25 defensive teams in the NCAA right now, 5 are in the SEC (and Texas A&M is 26th), the Big 12 has 3, the AAC has 2, the Big East has 2, the ACC has 1 and the remaining 12 are from the other mid-major conferences. Does this mean that schools like Purdue and Minnesota, who played to a final score of 90-88 (79-79 in regulation) last night are offensive powerhouses? I doubt that anyone who has seen a couple of B1G teams play would suggest that as the answer.

I'm not suggesting that the SEC teams are offensively or defensively head and shoulders above the other conferences, but the picture isn't as dire as the naysayers on here are describing either.

Jim

 

[pimo1]

I'm curious. Do those of you who feel the SEC is such an offensive quagmire watch any other conference teams (other than UConn and Notre Dame) play against each other?

Is it possible that the SEC teams, as a whole, play better defense than a number of other conferences? Looking at the top 25 defensive teams in the NCAA right now, 5 are in the SEC (and Texas A&M is 26th), the Big 12 has 3, the AAC has 2, the Big East has 2, the ACC has 1 and the remaining 12 are from the other mid-major conferences. Does this mean that schools like Purdue and Minnesota, who played to a final score of 90-88 (79-79 in regulation) last night are offensive powerhouses? I doubt that anyone who has seen a couple of B1G teams play would suggest that as the answer.

I'm not suggesting that the SEC teams are offensively or defensively head and shoulders above the other conferences, but the picture isn't as dire as the naysayers on here are describing either.

Jim

a fan of logic would realize if you play in a conference of bad offenses your defensive numbers will look good..however the opposite is also true in a conference of good defenses offensive numbers look good

The truth is likely somewhere in the middle

 

[CannonVol80]

The truth is likely somewhere in the middle

Which was what I was suggesting


a fan of logic would realize if you play in a conference of bad offenses your defensive numbers will look good..however the opposite is also true in a conference of good defenses offensive numbers look good


The first part of your comment is certainly accurate, but the latter part only makes logical sense if you substitute "bad" for "good" before defenses

Jim

 

[teacherdean]

Wow, do you ever get thirsty sipping from that always half empty glass?

LSU put up 84 against KY last Sunday (and beat Miss St. 71-69 last week); not to mention the completely inept LV offense scored 75 on this low scoring night (plus 77 in a losing effort in their last outing).

But heaven forbid anyone suggest that there might be some bright spots in the LV program.

Being positive and mentioning bright spots in the LV program? Is that allowed?

 

[Darth_Vol]

The truth is likely somewhere in the middle

That's probably accurate. My point is the fans were getting a bit carried away and the defense was probably greatly overrated during the win streak seeing how SEC scores in the 50's are pretty commonplace. The consensus on the board leading up to the ND game was that this was the weakest Irish team in years without the firepower they've had in the past. If that's the case, it has to be discouraging the way they torched Tennessee for the most points they have ever given up under Holly.

While the defense has been overrated, I will say the improvement in the offense has been underrated and Holly does deserve props for that. It hasn't been perfect, but the last handful of games it is much better than what it has been...

 

[clkou]

Just take a look at the SEC scoreboard last night:
Texas A&M 51 Georgia 54
Arkansas 53 Vandy 55
Alabama 51 Auburn 50
Miss. St. 64 Ole Miss 62

Either every team in the SEC plays awesome defense, or most every offense in the conference is pathetic....

I've always thought that looking at how many points another team allows or gives up is not a good indication of a team's defense because there's a lot of factors that goes into how many points a team gets and defense or offense isn't at the top of the list. The PACE of a game has the most to do with points allowed or given up. If teams are taking quick shots and fast breaks and pressing, that can speed the game up and allow a lot more points. Think about it, if you score a basket, you are giving the other team a chance to score on the next play. Obviously, we aren't going to try to not score so we can keep the score low and have a "good defense". By contrast if a team is using all of the shot clock and walking the ball up and taking their time, that has the opposite effect.

To me, the field goal % of the opposing team, number of steals, and your rebounds relative to the other team are all much better indicators of a good defense than points allowed.

 

[LadyVol1908]

I've always thought that looking at how many points another team allows or gives up is not a good indication of a team's defense because there's a lot of factors that goes into how many points a team gets and defense or offense isn't at the top of the list. The PACE of a game has the most to do with points allowed or given up. If teams are taking quick shots and fast breaks and pressing, that can speed the game up and allow a lot more points. Think about it, if you score a basket, you are giving the other team a chance to score on the next play. Obviously, we aren't going to try to not score so we can keep the score low and have a "good defense". By contrast if a team is using all of the shot clock and walking the ball up and taking their time, that has the opposite effect.

To me, the field goal % of the opposing team, number of steals, and your rebounds relative to the other team are all much better indicators of a good defense than points allowed.

BINGO!!!!! 100% AGREE! Its like time of possession in football! If the other team has the ball forever and taking its time to score points...you're not going to score a ton of points because you don't have the ball to score!!!

 

[Dave1967]

I wish the LadyVols played offense as good as they play defense

 

[Darth_Vol]

To me, the field goal % of the opposing team, number of steals, and your rebounds relative to the other team are all much better indicators of a good defense than points allowed.

OK, I'll play. Here are overall shooting and three point shooting percentages of SEC teams that have played the Lady Vols:

Vandy: .454 .326
Texas A&M: .435 .296
Auburn: .412 .282
LSU: .410 .328
Missouri: .393 .320
Arkansas: .382 .299
Georgia: .382 .284

Impressive list of juggernaut offenses isn't it? What's amazing is Tennessee is having one of the worst shooting seasons in program history, but they still rank in the top 4 of the SEC....

 

[governmentmule]

I wish the LadyVols played offense as good as they play defense

I'm with you Dave,on that point ,

 

[madtownvol]

OK, I'll play. Here are overall shooting and three point shooting percentages of SEC teams that have played the Lady Vols:

Vandy: .454 .326
Texas A&M: .435 .296
Auburn: .412 .282
LSU: .410 .328
Missouri: .393 .320
Arkansas: .382 .299
Georgia: .382 .284

Impressive list of juggernaut offenses isn't it? What's amazing is Tennessee is having one of the worst shooting seasons in program history, but they still rank in the top 4 of the SEC....

Well, you didn't really play because the relevant question is how does the SEC stack-up in the broader context of WCBB? The implication of your post is that the SEC is unusually bad in terms of its offensive proficiency. Well, how about in comparison to the ACC?:

1. Notre Dame 22 684 1366 .501
2. Louisville 21 627 1342 .467
3. Florida State 21 618 1365 .453
4. Duke 21 559 1250 .447
5. Wake Forest 22 547 1255 .436
6. Virginia 21 543 1254 .433
7. Georgia Tech 21 585 1364 .429
8. North Carolina 21 582 1414 .412
9. Pitt 20 523 1277 .410
10. Boston College 20 485 1206 .402
11. Miami 20 494 1240 .398
12. NC State 21 485 1227 .395
13. Virginia Tech 21 454 1178 .385
14. Clemson 21 452 1176 .384
15. Syracuse 21 520 1390 .374

As we know, ND is one of the best offenses in the country (#4 in the country in fact). Louisville has a slightly higher shooting % than Vandy. So, except for ND, the SEC is very much on par.

How about the Big 10? It's a similar story:

1. Maryland 20 631 1295 .487
2. Iowa 20 572 1244 .460
3. Northwestern 20 553 1238 .447
4. Rutgers 20 567 1276 .444
5. Michigan 20 552 1247 .443
6. Ohio State 21 618 1413 .437
7. Minnesota 21 591 1359 .435
8. Indiana 20 545 1265 .431
9. Nebraska 20 515 1222 .421
10. Wisconsin 20 470 1133 .415
11. Michigan State 21 517 1248 .414
12. Illinois 21 535 1320 .405
13. Penn State 21 507 1279 .396
14. Purdue 21 492 1254 .392

And Surprise, surprise, the Big Ten MEN aren't much better!!:

1. Ohio State 22 655 1293 .507
2. Wisconsin 20 518 1062 .488
3. Indiana 21 591 1235 .479
4. Michigan State 21 574 1209 .475
5. Minnesota 22 612 1310 .467
6. Purdue 21 541 1169 .463
7. Penn State 21 511 1165 .439
8. Maryland 22 505 1153 .438
9. Northwestern 20 467 1070 .436
10. Illinois 21 535 1248 .429
11. Nebraska 20 435 1016 .428
12. Iowa 20 466 1121 .416
13. Michigan 21 470 1133 .415
14. Rutgers 22 464 1177 .394

So, it is relative comparisons that matter. The reality is that you have seem to have skewed view of offensive proficiency. Across the board, shooting percentages, are not as high as you imply the norm to be. The statistical fact that the LVs are the #10 scoring defense in the country (and #3 in the SEC) suggests that they are a very good defensive team and a cut above most other programs. And the fact that three SEC teams are in the national top 10 could also imply that the conference has a number of strong defensive teams.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Well, you didn't really play because the relevant question is how does the SEC stack-up in the broader context of WCBB?

Thank you for doing all that work for me just to further prove my point. The SEC has three teams that shoot over 42%. Almost half the league shoots in the 30's for the season. I'm not skewing anything. None of the conference data you provided comes close to those horrific shooting numbers.

I've agreed there are several good defensive teams in the league and that is a factor, but any objective fan would also have to admit this is a down year for SEC offenses. And Tennessee's defense is good.... but I can't call a defense that gives up 88 points to anyone, anywhere, an elite defense....

 

[boxerpupsrcool]

I really wonder if we do have this amazing defense or is it just teams having off nights against us. we still seem to have a big problem of guarding the three ball. Kentucky almost beat us last night because of that. we seem to play a pretty good zone, but we seem to have major problems guarding smaller and quicker guards who can slash to the basket in a man to man. I will credit holly for making adjustments when teams start driving to the basket. She didn't make an adjustment against ND really, but her hands were kinda tied there. If she goes to a zone then mabrey and cable would have gone off on us. It's one of those damned if ya do or damned if ya don't. Kinda lose lose situation.

 

[madtownvol]

Thank you for doing all that work for me just to further prove my point. The SEC has three teams that shoot over 42%. .

You might recheck those numbers
Southeastern Conference - Women's Basketball - Team Field Goals Statistics

8 teams are shooting over 40%, with 4 over 42% (and that stat includes 3 PG shots). When you look at 2pt. % all 14 teams are at or above 42%. But am I rounding up the two teams whose shooting percentage is 41.9%.

All that aside, the bigger point is that SEC is pretty much on par with other conferences in terms of offensive proficiency. So, the fact that the LVs are in the nations top ten defenses can not be explained by the SEC being an unusually bad offensive conference.

 

[Darth_Vol]

I really wonder if we do have this amazing defense or is it just teams having off nights against us. we still seem to have a big problem of guarding the three ball. Kentucky almost beat us last night because of that.

Well Kentucky did come into the game shooting a blistering 27% from 3 on the season, but that number is probably skewed...

 

[Darth_Vol]

All that aside, the bigger point is that SEC is pretty much on par with other conferences in terms of offensive proficiency. So, the fact that the LVs are in the nations top ten defenses can not be explained by the SEC being an unusually bad offensive conference.

No, it isn't. South Carolina's offense is clearly on par with other top teams in other conferences. After that look at the significant drop from #2 on versus the other conferences you list... it isn't even that close. Again 6 of the 14 conference teams (almost half by my calculation), are shooting in the 30's. The ACC has 5, the others aren't close.

So again, thank you for helping me prove my point...

 

[madtownvol]

Again 6 of the 14 conference teams (almost half by my calculation), are shooting in the 30's. The ACC has 5, the others aren't close.

So again, thank you for helping me prove my point...

Oh you are SO very very welcome.

BTW, the range of the SEC bottom six is 37.5% to 39.7%. (in fact, lets list em, 37.5, 38.1, 38.2, 38.4, 39.5 and 39.7).

Now, I am no mathematical genius but those percentages seem closer to 40% than 30% but of course 30% sure sounds worse than "almost 40%."

But I am sure it all somehow still proves your point. So, once again you're sincerely welcome in advance.

Just like last nights 73-72 win obviously proves that neither KY or Tenn can score and which in turn obviously proves that they can't play defense or how else could these teams have both scored over 70 points since it is "proven" that they are offensively inept! :hi:

 

[Darth_Vol]

But I am sure it all somehow still proves your point. So, once again you're sincerely welcome in advance.

When you are trying to prove SEC offenses aren't that bad by listing conferences that, top to bottom, shoot significantly better.... I really don't know what else to tell you....:thud: