The "surge"

#1
lawgator1

lawgator1

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
72,299
Likes
42,693
#1
I didn't see the speech, but read it.

Is it just me or is Bush reaching even harder to equate Iraq with the generic war against Islamic fundamentalism?

Isn't it preey much a recognized fact that the problems in Iraq right now are sectarian betwene Shi'ite and Sunni and that those problems are not related to "terrorists" in the sense that we know them?

And yet Bush wants to expand the war effort there on the theory that we are stopping Al-Qaeda there?

Nonsense.
 
#2
#2
lawgator1 said:
I didn't see the speech, but read it.

Is it just me or is Bush reaching even harder to equate Iraq with the generic war against Islamic fundamentalism?

Isn't it preey much a recognized fact that the problems in Iraq right now are sectarian betwene Shi'ite and Sunni and that those problems are not related to "terrorists" in the sense that we know them?

And yet Bush wants to expand the war effort there on the theory that we are stopping Al-Qaeda there?

Nonsense.
Click to expand...
I heard terrorist were crossing the border,coming in from Iran to fight against us as well.It's a mess over there.President Bush's speeches seem to run together.
 
#3
#3
lawgator1 said:
I didn't see the speech, but read it.

Is it just me or is Bush reaching even harder to equate Iraq with the generic war against Islamic fundamentalism?

Isn't it preey much a recognized fact that the problems in Iraq right now are sectarian betwene Shi'ite and Sunni and that those problems are not related to "terrorists" in the sense that we know them?

And yet Bush wants to expand the war effort there on the theory that we are stopping Al-Qaeda there?

Nonsense.
Click to expand...
If you had read the Iraq Study Group Report you would have recognized the Bush's speech and new direction is pretty much taken straight from it, to include the crackdown on Al Qaeda in Iraq.

Personally, I felt that was the best speech Bush has made during his Presidency. He admitted faults, admitted that this plan isn't perfect, stated he is open to alterations from Congress and other experts in the field, and clearly stated that Iraq needs to be in control of their own security by November 2007.

Part of the plan is most definitely to root out Al Qaeda cells that are fanning the flames of sectarian violence, pitting the Shia and Sunni against each other even more than they are already doing themselves.
 
#4
#4
utfantilidie said:
I heard terrorist were crossing the border,coming in from Iran to fight against us as well.It's a mess over there.President Bush's speeches seem to run together.
Click to expand...
Obviously you did not listen to the speech, nor read it. This speech was wholely different from any speech he has given concerning the Operation in Iraq or the Global War on Terror.

You can think what you want to about the new direction, however, to state that this speech seems to run together with his others is to display your complete ignorance of the speech.
 
#5
#5
therealUT said:
Obviously you did not listen to the speech, nor read it. This speech was wholely different from any speech he has given concerning the Operation in Iraq or the Global War on Terror.

You can think what you want to about the new direction, however, to state that this speech seems to run together with his others is to display your complete ignorance of the speech.
Click to expand...
You don't have to be a SA therealUT.I didn't listen to Bush.BTW, my family has a monument in the courthouse lawn,HERO from a member KIA in Normandy, what have you contributed besides TALK (if anything)?
 
#7
#7
therealUT said:
If you had read the Iraq Study Group Report you would have recognized the Bush's speech and new direction is pretty much taken straight from it, to include the crackdown on Al Qaeda in Iraq.

Personally, I felt that was the best speech Bush has made during his Presidency. He admitted faults, admitted that this plan isn't perfect, stated he is open to alterations from Congress and other experts in the field, and clearly stated that Iraq needs to be in control of their own security by November 2007.

Part of the plan is most definitely to root out Al Qaeda cells that are fanning the flames of sectarian violence, pitting the Shia and Sunni against each other even more than they are already doing themselves.
Click to expand...
The problem is our military has become policeman and not soldiers. They went in kicked butt and instead of leaving they are on street patrol and they are easier targets. God bless the soldiers but they should now be home with their family. I find no fault in any soldier just the people who are behind a desk.
 
#8
#8
utfantilidie said:
You don't have to be a SA therealUT.I didn't listen to Bush.BTW, my family has a monument in the courthouse lawn,HERO from a member KIA in Normandy, what have you contributed besides TALK (if anything)?
Click to expand...

Gotta tell you your reaction to his post is a bit strong. RealUT is currently serving as an officer in the Army. Is "doing" something which should be recognized just as your family was recognized.
 
#10
#10
therealUT said:
Personally, I felt that was the best speech Bush has made during his Presidency. He admitted faults, admitted that this plan isn't perfect, stated he is open to alterations from Congress and other experts in the field, and clearly stated that Iraq needs to be in control of their own security by November 2007..
Click to expand...

The President is Commander and Chief. This is his decision. I support his intention to do what he believes right. I am doubtful he will ever see the success he so deeply desires, but that is my opinion and of little merit. God be with those who must carry out the mission.
 
#11
#11
I will probably get racked for this! It is my opinion that the only objective of war is .....To Win!!!!
 
#12
#12
orange+white=heaven said:
The President is Commander and Chief. This is his decision. I support his intention to do what he believes right. I am doubtful he will ever see the success he so deeply desires, but that is my opinion and of little merit. God be with those who must carry out the mission.
Click to expand...

Nice post. Glad to see debate that separates disagreements on strategy from demonization of proponents of either side. :eek:k:
 
#13
#13
In all honesty, if I were in his shoes and only had a short time to try and fashion some form of progress, I would likely do something along the same lines. I pray he can accomplish his objective. Either way, it's another man's problem soon...
 
#18
#18
I'll just be glad when Vietnam II: Scourge of the Insurgents
is over and the credits roll.

I wish it was just a bad movie... We gotta bring our boys home.
 
#19
#19
SWIL said:
I'll just be glad when Vietnam II: Scourge of the Insurgents
is over and the credits roll.

I wish it was just a bad movie... We gotta bring our boys home.
Click to expand...

I don't understand this "We gotta bring our boys home" mantra. Regardless of your feelings for going to war, or your feelings on how it is going. I would think the majority of the soldiers are ok with where they are at. Anyone joining the military understands there is going to be a large amount of time spent away from "home".
 
#20
#20
My father is retired Air Force. I'm not in the military, but I do have plenty of experience with it. Growing up, I'd sometimes go a year without seeing my dad. The "mantra" simply comes from missing your loved ones.
 
#21
#21
SWIL said:
My father is retired Air Force. I'm not in the military, but I do have plenty of experience with it. Growing up, I'd sometimes go a year without seeing my dad. The "mantra" simply comes from missing your loved ones.
Click to expand...

It's ok to miss them and understandable.
 
#22
#22
therealUT said:
...classy!
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to belittle you.Just don't belittle me.My first cousin was in Iraq as well for a year and he' been in for nearly 30 years.he was in Vietnam prior to that.One of good my friends is actually Brig. General in Afghanistan(Wing Commander in first Iraq Invasion).At this point in time I'm not democrat nor republican.I actually voted for Bush just kind of growing tired of hearing things form both parties yet the body count is 3000 and counting.My late grandfather was pro-Esinhower, even though he lost a 24 year old son over there, he knew it was the right thing at that time to do and I always repected him for that.Sorry if I offended you.BTW, my B/G firend was at the Pentagon when it was attacked.Parents didn't even know he was alive for 2/3 days.
 
#23
#23
Seesm to me that the only way for this to end in the next decade -- and in a way acceptable to everyone in the U.S. -- is for the Iraqis to take control of their own destiny. I am convinced, and never will be persuaded otherwise, that the biggest single error made in this war is that on the front end our planners miscalculated how quickly the sectarian problem would bloom into either full-scale civil war, or almost the equivalent.

Right now, it sure does seem that we are policing their internal war a whole lot more than we are rooting out terrorist cells or operatives that might one day threaten us.

Now, I do agree that it is in everyone's best interests to deal with the "insurgency," the "terrorists," the "whatever you want to call them," but I think in the end that the road out of Iraq is going to be built on getting the Iraqis to the point that they step up and deal with it themselves, rather than depend on us to try to handle it for them.

I don't see us ever being able to do that. More importantly, I struggle to see why it is our obligation to do so.
 
#24
#24
And Obama said today what I think is the growing sentiment, which is that we are not going to baby sit a civil war. And that's what it feels like we are doing right now.
 
#25
#25
lawgator1 said:
Seesm to me that the only way for this to end in the next decade -- and in a way acceptable to everyone in the U.S. -- is for the Iraqis to take control of their own destiny. I am convinced, and never will be persuaded otherwise, that the biggest single error made in this war is that on the front end our planners miscalculated how quickly the sectarian problem would bloom into either full-scale civil war, or almost the equivalent.

Right now, it sure does seem that we are policing their internal war a whole lot more than we are rooting out terrorist cells or operatives that might one day threaten us.

Now, I do agree that it is in everyone's best interests to deal with the "insurgency," the "terrorists," the "whatever you want to call them," but I think in the end that the road out of Iraq is going to be built on getting the Iraqis to the point that they step up and deal with it themselves, rather than depend on us to try to handle it for them.

I don't see us ever being able to do that. More importantly, I struggle to see why it is our obligation to do so.
Click to expand...
The road out is most definitely to put the Iraqi's in charge of their own security. The extra Brigade Combat Teams that will be deployed to Iraq will be under the ownership of Iraqi Divisions. Some of these squads, platoons, and companies will be under the ownership of Iraqi platoons, companies, and battalions, respectively. Eventually these units will detach from their parent units and come back to the states.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top