The Thornton Center

#1

Coach Grizz

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#1
How long has the Thornton been in the hands of acedemics? That was built for UT athletes to help them with their acedemics to keep the on the field!! And why is it so hard for transfers to get into UT? This is all on Jimmy Cheek!! If some professors and administrators are not on board for getting Tennessee football back to a championship level then they need to go to!!
 
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#2
#2
How long has the Thornton been in the hands of acedemics? That was built for UT athletes to help them with their acedemics to keep the on the field!! And why is it so hard for transfers to get into UT? This is all on Jimmy Cheek!! If some professors and administrators are not on board for getting Tennessee football back to a championship level then they need to go to!!

It's really unfortunate that UT football has to have a college attached to it. If we could just shut down the damn school, it would free up so many additional resources the football team could use.

They are referred to as 'student athletes' for a reason. There was a time when UT was a school first and a football team second. I love football as much as the next guy but an education is enjoyable to watch every day not just for 3hrs for 12 saturdays in the fall.

It sounds like you want a semi-pro team not a team of young men attempting to play ball and learn a little bit in the process. I realize most players don't take full advantage of the opportunity but that doesn't mean the school shouldn't put forth an honest effort to provide an education.
 
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#3
#3
How long has the Thornton been in the hands of acedemics? That was built for UT athletes to help them with their acedemics to keep the on the field!! And why is it so hard for transfers to get into UT? This is all on Jimmy Cheek!! If some professors and administrators are not on board for getting Tennessee football back to a championship level then they need to go to!!

I don't know how long, but do think the faculity senate
has something to do w/ it.
 
#4
#4
How long has the Thornton been in the hands of acedemics?

8 years is my understanding.

That was built for UT athletes to help them with their acedemics to keep the on the field!! And why is it so hard for transfers to get into UT? This is all on Jimmy Cheek!! If some professors and administrators are not on board for getting Tennessee football back to a championship level then they need to go to!!

Too many people have a complete disconnect with how/why the athletic department -- and the football team, in particular -- is so important to the academic side of things...

The Thornton Center was built exclusively with funds from the Athletic Department, and it was designed specifically to help student-athletes. The AD -- for reasons unknown to me -- "gave" the Thornton Center to the academic side to be used for everything but student-athlete academic support. This is one of the 'disadvantages', relative to what other schools have, to which Hart was referring in the press conference.

It's a negative recruiting tool for other schools when they tell recruits that regardless of the coach, there's no academic support for athletes, and as such, they'll have a hard time staying eligible to play, much less graduate. (Naturally, it doesn't help that the football program over the past several years has been lackluster, not coming close to getting a whiff of any kind of championship)...

So.. recruits are not only NOT getting the "football help" they need, they're also not getting the academic help they need.

Result: 1-stars and 2-stars trying to compete on the field against 4-stars and 5-stars at Bama, Florida, Georgia, and yes, even Vandy (whose sheepskin looks a hell of a lot better than everybody else's, quite frankly)

..the football "uncompetitiveness" ball keeps rolling, fans unimpressed, stop going to games, stop giving money...

...and all of that is supposed to help get the academic institution called the University of Tennessee into the "Top 25"???

People need to get their heads screwed on straight.
 
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#5
#5
8 years is my understanding.



Too many people have a complete disconnect with how/why the athletic department -- and the football team, in particular -- is so important to the academic side of things...

The Thornton Center was built exclusively with funds from the Athletic Department, and it was designed specifically to help student-athletes. The AD -- for reasons unknown to me -- "gave" the Thornton Center to the academic side to be used for everything but student-athlete academic support. This is one of the 'disadvantages', relative to what other schools have, to which Hart was referring in the press conference.

It's a negative recruiting tool for other schools when they tell recruits that regardless of the coach, there's no academic support for athletes, and as such, they'll have a hard time staying eligible to play, much less graduate. (Naturally, it doesn't help that the football program over the past several years has been lackluster, not coming close to getting a whiff of any kind of championship)...

So.. recruits are not only NOT getting the "football help" they need, they're also not getting the academic help they need.

Result: 1-stars and 2-stars trying to compete on the field against 4-stars and 5-stars at Bama, Florida, Georgia, and yes, even Vandy (whose sheepskin looks a hell of a lot better than everybody else's, quite frankly)

..the football "uncompetitiveness" ball keeps rolling, fans unimpressed, stop going to games, stop giving money...

...and all of that is supposed to help get the academic institution called the University of Tennessee into the "Top 25"???

People need to get their heads screwed on straight.

Good post now explain that to the guy that posted above you lol
 
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#6
#6
It's really unfortunate that UT football has to have a college attached to it. If we could just shut down the damn school, it would free up so many additional resources the football team could use.

They are referred to as 'student athletes' for a reason. There was a time when UT was a school first and a football team second. I love football as much as the next guy but an education is enjoyable to watch every day not just for 3hrs for 12 saturdays in the fall.

It sounds like you want a semi-pro team not a team of young men attempting to play ball and learn a little bit in the process. I realize most players don't take full advantage of the opportunity but that doesn't mean the school shouldn't put forth an honest effort to provide an education.

Yeah and for those 12 Saturdays nobody gives a damn about science research either. Yes I understand this is acedemics institution but Football pays the bills!! Ask Alabama OU Oregon Notre Dame how important football is. And honestly to keep it real those 4 and 5 star recruits are here for one thing.... TO WIN!! We will never win with 2 star Rudy's. WE NEED STUDS, and if they need a little help in their studies then so be it. Even Vandy realize that now. Coach Matthews said We are doing what vandy use to do as far as the acedemics running the athletic dept and they were in a 50 year **** hole. They have got away from that and they beat our ass!! Pull your head out of your ass man
 
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#7
#7
It's really unfortunate that UT football has to have a college attached to it. If we could just shut down the damn school, it would free up so many additional resources the football team could use.

They are referred to as 'student athletes' for a reason. There was a time when UT was a school first and a football team second. I love football as much as the next guy but an education is enjoyable to watch every day not just for 3hrs for 12 saturdays in the fall.

It sounds like you want a semi-pro team not a team of young men attempting to play ball and learn a little bit in the process. I realize most players don't take full advantage of the opportunity but that doesn't mean the school shouldn't put forth an honest effort to provide an education.

Pipe down. We all know UT is a school. No need to get all self-righteous about it...:good!:
 
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#8
#8
people are really, really misguided to be blaming academics for the problems of the football team.

some of you act like the team only hands out football scholarships to rhodes scholars
 
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#9
#9
people are really, really misguided to be blaming academics for the problems of the football team.

some of you act like the team only hands out football scholarships to rhodes scholars

I know that but we gotta have them studs to be able to compete in the best conference in America
 
#10
#10
people are really, really misguided to be blaming academics for the problems of the football team.

some of you act like the team only hands out football scholarships to rhodes scholars

With the way the we are set up now, they just about have to be compared to the other state schools in the conference, that was kind of the point.
 
#11
#11
How long has the Thornton been in the hands of acedemics? That was built for UT athletes to help them with their acedemics to keep the on the field!! And why is it so hard for transfers to get into UT? This is all on Jimmy Cheek!! If some professors and administrators are not on board for getting Tennessee football back to a championship level then they need to go to!!

Wait, what? The mission of the University is now to support the football team?

The professors ought to fail any student of theirs who does not perform up to standard; why should athletes be given extensions and passes? There are plenty of students who work to pay for their tuition, they are not given the extensions, the passes, or the extra tutors that the athletes are.
 
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#12
#12
...sorry for the length. This is part of an article that may answer some questions you have. It's from TOS.

The Thornton Center, as most know, is the building that houses all the academic support systems for the athletic department. It was built in the mid-90's and was completely financed by athletic department funds, every penny of it.

That was a tremendous boon for Tennessee athletes when it was built, just state-of-the-art. It was a showpiece and one of the best of its kind in the country.

Now, the changes that came about were a result of mistakes that were made with oversight and the athletic department itself was certainly culpable in some of that. Because of some irregularities that occurred the decision was made to take the oversight of the Thornton Center completely away from the athletic department and turn it over to the academic side of the university.

A lady named Ruth Darling oversaw that transition, and what happened after that was that the athletic department lost all control over, and input into the Thornton Center from that point forward.

As I'm well meaning as I'm sure the academic authorities were, it had a debilitating effect on the athletic department. The academic department, which again I'm sure had good intentions, just didn't have the same motivation to make sure those athletes were there studying and getting better in the classroom.

I can't stress how huge of a problem it was in helping the young men and women that the whole system was put in place for originally.

One of the results of this shift was that no one from the athletic side could have any involvement with the academic side. What I mean by that is that a coach couldn't even pick up the phone and call a tutor, or a professor, and find out what was happening with a player.

I've heard all these concerns expressed about how you don't want a coach calling and putting pressure on a professor. There are a couple of key things on that, but the first one is, I was a college assistant for over 20 years, I don't know of any assistant coach who would want to put himself in a position where he was trying to put pressure on a tenured--that's a key word--faculty member.

Generally, as a coach, all you want to know is if the player you're worried about is going to class. I want to know if he needs some help, if he's doing what he's supposed to do with a tutor. As a coach, you're not interested--or no one I ever knew was--in putting pressure on a professor, you're interested maybe in putting pressure on the player though if he needs it, and the current set up makes it difficult to do that.

The other thing is, if you're a tenured professor at the University of Tennessee why in the world would you worry about any coach in athletics putting pressure on you. They can't fire you.

From that point up until today the athletic department has had zero input into anything to do with the Thornton Center, and in my opinion it's greatly affected how you're able to monitor your players and keep up with what's happening with them in the classroom.

In my time there as a coach I had the ability to find out from Carmen Tegano, at that time, and tutors how a player was doing. It's not something you do to 'put pressure' on a professor, that's ridiculous in my opinion, it's something you want to do so you can get a kid more help if he needs it.

Make no mistake, the athletic department made some mistakes of its own to put themselves in a position where they lost the authority to oversee the Thornton Center. However, I think the response was heavy-handed and irresponsible and we're still paying the price for it in our athletic programs. You don't throw the baby out with the bath-water as the old saying goes, and I think that's what we did in this case.

That whole situation there isn't something that gets a lot of attention, but it's been very, very damaging.
 
#13
#13
Maybe I'm out of the loop, but when I was in school, the Thornton Center was exclusively for athelete tutoring and study hall. They used to pay friends of mine $10 an hour just to attend classes the athletes were enrolled and take notes...
 
#14
#14
...sorry for the length. This is part of an article that may answer some questions you have. It's from TOS.

The Thornton Center, as most know, is the building that houses all the academic support systems for the athletic department. It was built in the mid-90's and was completely financed by athletic department funds, every penny of it.

That was a tremendous boon for Tennessee athletes when it was built, just state-of-the-art. It was a showpiece and one of the best of its kind in the country.

Now, the changes that came about were a result of mistakes that were made with oversight and the athletic department itself was certainly culpable in some of that. Because of some irregularities that occurred the decision was made to take the oversight of the Thornton Center completely away from the athletic department and turn it over to the academic side of the university.

A lady named Ruth Darling oversaw that transition, and what happened after that was that the athletic department lost all control over, and input into the Thornton Center from that point forward.

As I'm well meaning as I'm sure the academic authorities were, it had a debilitating effect on the athletic department. The academic department, which again I'm sure had good intentions, just didn't have the same motivation to make sure those athletes were there studying and getting better in the classroom.

I can't stress how huge of a problem it was in helping the young men and women that the whole system was put in place for originally.

One of the results of this shift was that no one from the athletic side could have any involvement with the academic side. What I mean by that is that a coach couldn't even pick up the phone and call a tutor, or a professor, and find out what was happening with a player.

I've heard all these concerns expressed about how you don't want a coach calling and putting pressure on a professor. There are a couple of key things on that, but the first one is, I was a college assistant for over 20 years, I don't know of any assistant coach who would want to put himself in a position where he was trying to put pressure on a tenured--that's a key word--faculty member.

Generally, as a coach, all you want to know is if the player you're worried about is going to class. I want to know if he needs some help, if he's doing what he's supposed to do with a tutor. As a coach, you're not interested--or no one I ever knew was--in putting pressure on a professor, you're interested maybe in putting pressure on the player though if he needs it, and the current set up makes it difficult to do that.

The other thing is, if you're a tenured professor at the University of Tennessee why in the world would you worry about any coach in athletics putting pressure on you. They can't fire you.

From that point up until today the athletic department has had zero input into anything to do with the Thornton Center, and in my opinion it's greatly affected how you're able to monitor your players and keep up with what's happening with them in the classroom.

In my time there as a coach I had the ability to find out from Carmen Tegano, at that time, and tutors how a player was doing. It's not something you do to 'put pressure' on a professor, that's ridiculous in my opinion, it's something you want to do so you can get a kid more help if he needs it.

Make no mistake, the athletic department made some mistakes of its own to put themselves in a position where they lost the authority to oversee the Thornton Center. However, I think the response was heavy-handed and irresponsible and we're still paying the price for it in our athletic programs. You don't throw the baby out with the bath-water as the old saying goes, and I think that's what we did in this case.

That whole situation there isn't something that gets a lot of attention, but it's been very, very damaging.

This is all good and well, but you are operating on the assumption that most of the professors are full, tenured professors. Universities not only have plenty of courses (especially 100 and 200 level) that are taught by associate professors and adjuncts, but they also have plenty of courses that are graded by graduate assistants and fellows. To act like this latter group is invincible is ridiculous; moreover, many TAs, TFs, adjuncts, and associates are much younger and much more vulnerable (especially financially vulnerable, since they do not make much money and, well, boosters have paid off graders and associates in the past; and associate professors have been pressured into establishing certain courses that are tailored specifically for jocks). That said, there are plenty of reasons for establishing a firewall between instructors and coaches.

Now, that still allows for tutors. However, there is a massive difference between the allowance of tutors and the allotment of study spaces (last time I checked, UTK had 3 libraries). Moreover, there is a large gap between a student's parents paying for a tutor and a student's parents calling the instructor. In fact, the latter notion is absurd; yet, this is pretty much what is going on when coaches call to speak with instructors.
 
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#15
#15
Yeah and for those 12 Saturdays nobody gives a damn about science research either. Yes I understand this is acedemics institution but Football pays the bills!! Ask Alabama OU Oregon Notre Dame how important football is. And honestly to keep it real those 4 and 5 star recruits are here for one thing.... TO WIN!! We will never win with 2 star Rudy's. WE NEED STUDS, and if they need a little help in their studies then so be it. Even Vandy realize that now. Coach Matthews said We are doing what vandy use to do as far as the acedemics running the athletic dept and they were in a 50 year **** hole. They have got away from that and they beat our ass!! Pull your head out of your ass man
Amen preach it Grizz.We r a freaking foofball school.
 
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#16
#16
Wait, what? The mission of the University is now to support the football team?

The professors ought to fail any student of theirs who does not perform up to standard; why should athletes be given extensions and passes? There are plenty of students who work to pay for their tuition, they are not given the extensions, the passes, or the extra tutors that the athletes are.

Yeah and at the same time average Joe student is allowed to have a job athletes are not. Them boys would like extra pocket change for new shoes or take their girlfriend out but average Joe student can. Being a college athlete ain't all glory.
 
#17
#17
This is all good and well, but you are operating on the assumption that most of the professors are full, tenured professors. Universities not only have plenty of courses (especially 100 and 200 level) that are taught by associate professors and adjuncts, but they also have plenty of courses that are graded by graduate assistants and fellows. To act like this latter group is invincible is ridiculous; moreover, many TAs, TFs, adjuncts, and associates are much younger and much more vulnerable (especially financially vulnerable, since they do not make much money and, well, boosters have paid off graders and associates in the past; and associate professors have been pressured into establishing certain courses that are tailored specifically for jocks). That said, there are plenty of reasons for establishing a firewall between instructors and coaches.

Now, that still allows for tutors. However, there is a massive difference between the allowance of tutors and the allotment of study spaces (last time I checked, UTK had 3 libraries). Moreover, there is a large gap between a student's parents paying for a tutor and a student's parents calling the instructor. In fact, the latter notion is absurd; yet, this is pretty much what is going on when coaches call to speak with instructors.

I see what you're saying, but I think there is, and should be, more of a business mentality when it comes to student-athletes. They're "compensated" (scholarship) for something in return (performance). Nobody depends on the outcome of a student. Collegiate athletes have people that depend on what they do in the classroom. Some for programs that invest millions of dollars into the system.
 
#18
#18
To say that athletes can't get academic support at UT is about the most ignorant thing I've heard regarding how UTK works. Every student can get academic support and players have more access to it than anyone.

Furthermore, I taught some of Summitt's girls and guess what? Coach Summitt ran things differently than any other sport or organized group on campus and it worked. The pressure was on those girls to perform, to show up to class, to sit in the front row and participate, and I was always informed ahead of time by the student in writing when they had to miss class. They would also ask about their grades and keep up with how they were doing. As students they were absolute joys to have in class.

And these were responsibilities that they were given and had to keep up with -- the athletic dept. didn't hold their hand but Summitt obviously kept their feet to the fire in emphasizing the importance of doing all of those things. Every other coach on campus could've done the same but they didn't and I've seen the results firsthand.
 
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#19
#19
Too many people have a complete disconnect with how/why the athletic department -- and the football team, in particular -- is so important to the academic side of things...

The Thornton Center was built exclusively with funds from the Athletic Department, and it was designed specifically to help student-athletes. The AD -- for reasons unknown to me -- "gave" the Thornton Center to the academic side to be used for everything but student-athlete academic support. This is one of the 'disadvantages', relative to what other schools have, to which Hart was referring in the press conference.

It's a negative recruiting tool for other schools when they tell recruits that regardless of the coach, there's no academic support for athletes, and as such, they'll have a hard time staying eligible to play, much less graduate. (Naturally, it doesn't help that the football program over the past several years has been lackluster, not coming close to getting a whiff of any kind of championship)...

So.. recruits are not only NOT getting the "football help" they need, they're also not getting the academic help they need.

Result: 1-stars and 2-stars trying to compete on the field against 4-stars and 5-stars at Bama, Florida, Georgia, and yes, even Vandy (whose sheepskin looks a hell of a lot better than everybody else's, quite frankly)

..the football "uncompetitiveness" ball keeps rolling, fans unimpressed, stop going to games, stop giving money...

...and all of that is supposed to help get the academic institution called the University of Tennessee into the "Top 25"???

People need to get their heads screwed on straight.

This is completely inaccurate.

The Thornton Center is a partnership between the University and athletics and does nothing but provide academic support for student athletes and prospective student athletes. That's literally all it does. The academic side has had oversight of it since it opened.

Non-athletes cannot use it. Can't even get in the door. People from the Thornton Center monitor class attendance of athletes, communicate with professors and coaches about athletes' academic performance, and help athletes plan out their class schedules. They also organize study hall time and free tutors for athletes.

To say that there is no academic support for athletes at Tennessee is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on a message board. And with some of the things posted on here, that's saying something.

It's certainly not used against us in recruiting. In fact, the student-athlete academic centers at most schools are based on the model that UT started with the Thornton Center.
 
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#20
#20
Somebody said 8 years since it changed hands. That's about the time Tennesse started going down hill... It's once piece of a puzzle that's caused Tenn football to be at a competitive disadvantage.
 
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#21
#21
To say that athletes can't get academic support at UT is about the most ignorant thing I've heard regarding how UTK works. Every student can get academic support and players have more access to it than anyone.

Furthermore, I taught some of Summitt's girls and guess what? Coach Summitt ran things differently than any other sport or organized group on campus and it worked. The pressure was on those girls to perform, to show up to class, to sit in the front row and participate, and I was always informed ahead of time by the student in writing when they had to miss class. They would also ask about their grades and keep up with how they were doing. As students they were absolute joys to have in class.

And these were responsibilities that they were given and had to keep up with -- the athletic dept. didn't hold their hand but Summitt obviously kept their feet to the fire in emphasizing the importance of doing all of those things. Every other coach on campus could've done the same but they didn't and I've seen the results firsthand.

Coach Summit ran a tight ship but I imagine its easier to control 20 players compared to 110 or so
 
#22
#22
Somebody said 8 years since it changed hands. That's about the time Tennesse started going down hill... It's once piece of a puzzle that's caused Tenn football to be at a competitive disadvantage.

That's what coach Matthews said this morning
 
#23
#23
The Ath. Dept ran it and now its run by academics some of whom dont give a sh*t about sports let alone football. Tell me how that helps our program. Tell me how it helps athletes to be help by a jealous academician who may think an athlete is a glorified beer pong player.
 
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#24
#24
the ath. Dept ran it and now its run by academics some of whom dont give a sh*t about sports let alone football. Tell me how that helps our program. Tell me how it helps athletes to be help by a jealous academician who may think an athlete is a glorified beer pong player.

thank you!!
 
#25
#25
Coach Summit's program benefitted from the continuity that her long term tenure provided. The current players have experienced position coach changes along with a turnover in academic advisors at Thornton. So, just when the coach and advisor are figuring out how to best support a particular student athlete, the coach and/or advisor move on.
 

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