This has really bugged me lately

#1
orangetd88

orangetd88

Agent of Chaos
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#1
I know we have beaten this subject up recently, but here it goes anyway...

All of these comments from DC bringing back discipline to the offense are great and good to hear, but I have one problem with it.

IT'S NOT THE OC'S JOB TO DO THAT!

Well, OK, yeah it is, sort of, but it ultimately falls at the feet of the head coach. Why the hell do we have to get a new coordinator to bring back the hard line? Why doesn't Fulmer take the blame? I mean, the OC is making $1.7 million LESS than the head coach, and yet the OC is the one who needs to bring back the discipline? What? The more I hear this stuff, the more I wonder what the hell is going on up there these days.



 
#2
#2
Good question and I agree. I think that the return of DC will get the job done but you're right, that shouldn't just fall on the other coaches.

DC completes Fulmer. Fulmer hasn't looked as good since he left. At this point, I don't care who gets the attitude and discipline back as long as someone does.
 
#3
#3
If you take a different perspective: The greatest military commanders had outstanding commanders under them. For example has great as Robert E. Lee was he was much less effective after the death of Stonewall Jackson. This is the case in football as well, or in any other occupation where the need for leadership is paramount.

I'm not saying CPF is Bobby Lee, but he is a good coach, despite what folks on these boards like to say. You don't by cause of accident become the 2nd all time winningist coach in UT history. Perhaps CPF just needs his Stonewall to come to town and give him a hand.

Also after Fulmer left, its possible that other coaches didn't have the gravitas to tell Fulmer when he made mistakes. Especially on the offensive side of the program. I have no doubt that Fulmer will listen to DC. And following this season I would much rather try to repair the broken vehicle that is UT Football, than scrap it and start from scratch.
 
#4
#4
I agree with both of your posts, and I'm ready for someone to get the job done.

USMCvol, I pose this question to you...have you ever read where Lee blamed the death of Stonewall on his losses? Have you ever read where he blamed the loss of his men to losing the war? I think you see where I'm going here.

I'm by no means disagreeing with your post because you bring a good perspective there. But that is what CPF has done over the last several years. He's blamed the losses and lack of discipline on everybody but himself.
 
#5
#5
Originally posted by orangetd88@Dec 6, 2005 8:36 PM
I know we have beaten this subject up recently, but here it goes anyway...

All of these comments from DC bringing back discipline to the offense are great and good to hear, but I have one problem with it.

IT'S NOT THE OC'S JOB TO DO THAT!

Well, OK, yeah it is, sort of, but it ultimately falls at the feet of the head coach.  Why the hell do we have to get a new coordinator to bring back the hard line?  Why doesn't Fulmer take the blame?  I mean, the OC is making $1.7 million LESS than the head coach, and yet the OC is the one who needs to bring back the discipline?  What?  The more I hear this stuff, the more I wonder what the hell is going on up there these days.
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well cut just demands a certain respect around the locker room that fulmer cant give us. fulmer is to busy clapping his way around the field. cut will show his leadership skills and why he will eventually be out next head coach. he also has a major thing with detail and wants things done perfect. kinda like peyton does in the nfl. he knows everything about every player.
:devilsmoke:
 
#6
#6
Originally posted by orangetd88@Dec 6, 2005 9:03 PM
  But that is what CPF has done over the last several years.  He's blamed the losses and lack of discipline on everybody but himself.
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Fulmer has stated time and time again that this poor season starts with him. How much more blame do you want him to take? What do you want him to do? He said he won't ever hype his team up again. He said that a lack of discipline starts with him. He said that the QB rotation played a key role in the problems this season. He has taken action by removing a couple of coaches and hiring Cutcliff. I agree that he is late in doing these things, but I am satisfied with what he has said and done.
 
#7
#7
I only remember him stating that in his "letter" to the season ticket holders.

But you are right, he did eventually take some blame for it. Sorry if it seemed I said he had side stepped it totally.

But the real problem I have is that an assistant has to come in and clean up. That's my main point, and it doesn't bode well for the future when DC leaves again, whether it be for another head coaching job or retirement. I sat retirement because he's had some health issues recently...who's to say that won;t happen again in the next few years? I pray for him and his family that it doesn;t, but when you;ve had heart problems and you are in a high stress job like this, you never know.
 
#8
#8
I don't think Cutcliffe is necessarily supposed to be the solution to the discipline problem. I think it's more that CPF recognizes (maybe at the point of a gun) that he has a problem with the culture surrounding Tennessee football. Bringing in new coaches is one way to change that.
 
#11
#11
I don't think you last 14 years based on just being a good recruiter.
 
#12
#12
I think he's gotten into a rut , hopefully this season will jar him out of it.
 
#13
#13
Originally posted by orangetd88@Dec 6, 2005 9:03 PM
I agree with both of your posts, and I'm ready for someone to get the job done.

USMCvol, I pose this question to you...have you ever read where Lee blamed the death of Stonewall on his losses?  Have you ever read where he blamed the loss of his men to losing the war?  I think you see where I'm going here.

I'm by no means disagreeing with your post because you bring a good perspective there.  But that is what CPF has done over the last several years.  He's blamed the losses and lack of discipline on everybody but himself.
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After the battle of Gettysburg Lee was quoted as saying If he still had Jackson, Then Jackson would have captured little round top, which would have in Lee's opinion given him a decisive victory. Lee also remarked when Jackson lost his left arm (which later lead to an infection and death) The he (lee) had lost his right.

However, by no means I'm I comparing Fulmer to Lee. Lee is probably second only to Christ among many Southerners. Just making a comparison between leaders and those under them that carry out their intent. Sorry to rehash this, I'm a bit of a nerd.
 
#14
#14
Originally posted by USMCvol@Dec 6, 2005 10:06 PM
After the battle of Gettysburg Lee was quoted as saying If he still had Jackson, THen Jackson would have captured little round top, which would have in Lee's opinion given him a decisive victory.  Lee also remarked when Jackson lost his left arm (which later lead to an infection and death) The he (lee) had lost his right.

However, by no means I'm I comparing Fulmer to Lee.  Lee is probably second only to Christ among many Southerners.  Just making a comparison between leaders and those under them that carry out their  intent.
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Wow, I did not know that he said that. A good conversation about football and a quick history lesson all in one post. LOL

Seriously, I know you are not comparing the two. I do see your points, though.
 
#15
#15
Originally posted by hhsterriers@Dec 6, 2005 11:16 PM
Without rehashing pros and cons, what is Fulmer really good for other than recruiting?
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He's a good clapper. :clapping: :clapping:
 
#18
#18
Originally posted by swami2302@Dec 6, 2005 10:15 PM
Fulmer has stated time and time again that this poor season starts with him.  How much more blame do you want him to take?  What do you want him to do? He said he won't ever hype his team up again. He said that a lack of discipline starts with him. He said that the QB rotation played a key role in the problems this season.  He has taken action by removing a couple of coaches and hiring Cutcliff.  I agree that he is late in doing these things, but I am satisfied with what he has said and done.
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i think the frustration for many fans is that it took us going 5-6 and losing to Vandy to get some of this stuff addressed. We're all glad it's being addressed, the verdict is still out on if it is fixed or will be fixed, but most would agree that the steps taken thus far are good ones....time will tell.

But for the fans, who have been griping for a while now about many of the issues this program has, (and became VERY evident this year) i think they are more or less dissatisified with the length of time it took to even acknowledge there was a problem.

And one wonders, had we not had this bad year, maybe beaten Bama, Vandy and USC, nothing would have happened, and we'd be kind of in the same rut next year....

So there's kind of a hangover affect for the fans...not only were many of them right about the problems they noticed several years ago, but we also had to endure an embarrassing season. :yuck:
 
#19
#19
things were falling apart way before that letter went out to ticket holders. It is CPF's job to act and try to salvage things. It's always easier to take the blame after the fact. don't forget that part.
 
#20
#20
The HEAD COACH SHOULD ALWAYS BE RESPONSIBLE!

No balls, no blame. CPF has never been held responsible for our major slippage. There seems to be too many overly orange goggled fans that simply don't want to see! Unfortunately, UT having by far the most talent on the field and making a last quarter rally or last seconds field goal victory has become "Tennessee Football" to way too many.

At least that's the way it appears on other Volunteer Talk websites.
 
#21
#21
Originally posted by volmanjr@Dec 6, 2005 11:03 PM
I think he's gotten into a rut , hopefully this season will jar him out of it.
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He is in the Grand Canyon of mediocrity. The past few years the Vols looked like a time that plays scared. Let's open it up a little and see what happens. It can't be worse than this year, can it?
 
#22
#22
Originally posted by GAVol@Dec 6, 2005 10:22 PM
I don't think you last 14 years based on just being a good recruiter.
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Perhaps, but he does seem awful inept with regard to fixing or identifying problems on the team.

He still doesn't really know why we played so poorly. He's made up a bunch of neat sounding cliche's that the fans have been saying for years. But aside from that, nothing tangible.

When it goes that bad and can't readily identify it as it is happening, you're gonna have problems. He shouldn't have to do an "audit" after a 5-6 season to see what is wrong. It would be obvious to a better coach...usually. He's just now admitting that there was a problem.

I thought losing 30-3 to Maryland would have been enough for the guy to see something was wrong. But I don't think there has been anyone over there with any sense to say anything (which makes me question Chavis as the Assoc Head Coach).
 
#23
#23
I think that one of the problems is rather obvious to us and to Fulmer now. This turned into a different football program when Cut left the program. We won more with him here, we scored more with him here and it seems that the attitude and discipline was better than it is now.

I think that Fulmer is a solid coach but like many, he has a little weakness. I think that Cut made up for that weakness and he will do it again.
 
#24
#24
If you are going to say that Fulmer has a weakness, its that he delegates duties. He is a manager. It works very well when the people surrounding you are good at their jobs. In some of Fulmer's writings, that is how he explains his success... surrounding himself with qualified people. He is much more of a manager/recruiter/pr than anything else. That is how most head coachs are. However, there are a few, like Spurrier, Meyer, etc that like to be more hands on regarding play calling. But Spurrier hates to recruit and knows almost nothing about coaching defense. Each coach has his own kryptonite. I'm sure there are plenty of coachs that could be better than Fulmer on gameday, however, I don't think those same coachs would have anywhere near the talent that Fulmer has brought to UT and the results would be worse than a 70% winning percentage. If Fulmer has failed anywhere, its in his management skills of putting the right people in the right places to make the program is always successful. However, he is taking the right steps to correct that issue.
 
#25
#25
Originally posted by allvol@Dec 7, 2005 4:28 PM
If you are going to say that Fulmer has a weakness, its that he delegates duties. He is a manager. It works very well when the people surrounding you are good at their jobs.  In some of Fulmer's writings, that is how he explains his success... surrounding himself with qualified people.  He is much more of a manager/recruiter/pr than anything else.  That is how most head coachs are.  However, there are a few, like Spurrier, Meyer, etc that like to be more hands on regarding play calling.  But Spurrier hates to recruit and knows almost nothing about coaching defense. Each coach has his own kryptonite.  I'm sure there are plenty of coachs that could be better than Fulmer on gameday, however, I don't think those same coachs would have anywhere near the talent that Fulmer has brought to UT and the results would be worse than a 70% winning percentage.  If Fulmer has failed anywhere, its in his management skills of putting the right people in the right places to make the program is always successful.  However, he is taking the right steps to correct that issue.
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Finally a little sanity...couldn't agree more. :rock:
 
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