Thoughts on Social Security

[WA_Vol]

There is a financial advisor here who has a radio show and the topic of social security comes up frequently. His point of view is that social security will never go bankrupt. It's a great myth perpetuated on the American people.

In reality social security is very lucrative for the govt. The govt basicly forces you to invest in their 401k plan where when you die, the heir to your 401k is the govt. Your kids never see one dime of the money you pay in. Not only that, but the govt never has to show a return on your investment, on money you have invested for 30-40 years, all you get is this small allowance in old age until you die.

This fear that the social security is going to go bankrupt, is just the govt's way to take money from social security to pay for other govt spending. Thoughts?

 

[IPorange]

Never thought about it that way, but he seems to have a logic. Still, if there are more drawing from it than putting in...

 

[BeecherVol]

There is a financial advisor here who has a radio show and the topic of social security comes up frequently. His point of view is that social security will never go bankrupt. It's a great myth perpetuated on the American people.

In reality social security is very lucrative for the govt. The govt basicly forces you to invest in their 401k plan where when you die, the heir to your 401k is the govt. Your kids never see one dime of the money you pay in. Not only that, but the govt never has to show a return on your investment, on money you have invested for 30-40 years, all you get is this small allowance in old age until you die.

This fear that the social security is going to go bankrupt, is just the govt's way to take money from social security to pay for other govt spending. Thoughts?

Not bad.

As for going bankrupt, that may happen in a sense that by the time Im ready to draw it may be spent on something else. (or somebody) But thats not gonna keep them from drawing it out of what I make over the next 30 yrs. Along those lines its not bankrupt in a business sense because it doesn't stop the funds from coming in and the doors closing.

 

[volinbham]

At a minimum the government should treat it as a pension vehicle and not raid the money for the general fund. Even with an ultra-conservative investment strategy the money could get us beyond the de facto Ponzi scheme that it currently is.

Personally, I'd like to see a portion go to a private account with some restricted investment options. Given the contributors a personal stake in the cash.

Regardless, we need Al's lock box.

 

[lumberjack4]

At a minimum the government should treat it as a pension vehicle and not raid the money for the general fund.

I think its more along the lines of the general fund being raided to go to Social Security. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all collected taxes whether it be income, medicare, social security, or whatnot all goes into the same pot. I think there being a Social Security lock box somewhere is the big myth.

 

[lawgator1]

Someone somewhere along the way is going to do the right thing, which is to announce a small hike in the social security tax (like $10 a month) for people under 50 and increase the retirement age by a year for people under 40. Some combo like that which does not exact tremendous pain on any one group but rights the ship.

And then, as bham says, truly segregate it from general revenue.

 

[droski]

hate to go gibbs on you guys but i can't understand a tax that rapes the young (i.e. poor) to pay the old (i.e. rich). it should be morphed into welfare.

 

[VolsNSkinsFan]

absolutely morphed into welfare, and/or make seperate accounts that can be passed on.

Retired Rich people who dont need the extra $1000 a month, shouldnt get it.

People who have been paying into the system their whole lives only to die at 60, get ripped off.

 

[lawgator1]

absolutely morphed into welfare, and/or make seperate accounts that can be passed on.

Retired Rich people who dont need the extra $1000 a month, shouldnt get it.

People who have been paying into the system their whole lives only to die at 60, get ripped off.

Means testing?

Never pass.

 

[lawgator1]

hate to go gibbs on you guys but i can't understand a tax that rapes the young (i.e. poor) to pay the old (i.e. rich). it should be morphed into welfare.

Modified pyramid scheme. Problem is, every person working in this country has been paying into it. You gonna tell 64 year olds never mind at this point?

 

[utvolpj]

Retired Rich people who dont need the extra $1000 a month, shouldnt get it.

see that would be a great tax on the rich that Obama could go for and get lots of support

Means testing?

Never pass.

so it's ok for taxes but not for use of tax dollars? Guess we shouldn't have it for welfare either

at some point someone needs to be told "NO"

 

[lawgator1]

see that would be a great tax on the rich that Obama could go for and get lots of support



so it's ok for taxes but not for use of tax dollars? Guess we shouldn't have it for welfare either

at some point someone needs to be told "NO"

Well, if you tell 20-somethings they are not going to get SS when they retire they'll probably ask why they still have to pay the tax. And if you tell people making more than $100k they aren't going to get SS or that they will have it modified, they might ask the same thing.

Not to mention the irony that the high wage earners are the ones who put the most into it.

 

[utvolpj]

so we'll just keep going this way until broke. Good plan

you can't make everyone happy on this one. It's not a retirement account and people need to realize this. Plan for your own future or run the risk of working for a long time. Pretty simple actually

 

[droski]

Modified pyramid scheme. Problem is, every person working in this country has been paying into it. You gonna tell 64 year olds never mind at this point?

i have this argument with my father all the time. yes they called it a retirement fund, but it's been a pure tax for at least 30 years now. no one expects a return on their other taxes. i don't see how this is much different. at the VERY least we need to raise the retirement age.

 

[sjt18]

Someone somewhere along the way is going to do the right thing, which is to announce a small hike in the social security tax (like $10 a month) for people under 50 and increase the retirement age by a year for people under 40. Some combo like that which does not exact tremendous pain on any one group but rights the ship.

And then, as bham says, truly segregate it from general revenue.

Someone, somewhere along the way is going to do the right thing in spite of the statist fear mongers and either make social security a genuine pension plan or else convert it to a gov't insured 401k type of plan with only low risk investments.

Libs go nuts because they know it is absolutely true... Social Security in its current form is a Ponzi scheme.

I somewhat disagree with the OP though. Toward the point where the last of the baby boomers retire, the weight of the beneficiaries will overwhelm whoever is left actually working. Even with the changes planned for retirement ages, the system is either going to collapse, reduce benefits significantly, or turn the next generation into virtual slaves to the gov't.

 

[sjt18]

absolutely morphed into welfare, and/or make seperate accounts that can be passed on.

Retired Rich people who dont need the extra $1000 a month, shouldnt get it.

People who have been paying into the system their whole lives only to die at 60, get ripped off.

I have been paying for several years. My personal income has avg'd well above the median American income so I have paid quite a bit more than most. So what you are saying is that I should get nothing, right?

FTR, that IS my expectation.

 

[droski]

the problem with making a genuine pension plan is the gap where we have to fund both the pension plan and the current retirees. i can't see a way to do both without significantly raising social security taxes.

 

[orutvol]

i have this argument with my father all the time. yes they called it a retirement fund, but it's been a pure tax for at least 30 years now. no one expects a return on their other taxes. i don't see how this is much different. at the VERY least we need to raise the retirement age.

The retirement age has steadily increased throughout the years. Social Security actually has a table that shows what age is full retirement based on what year you were born.

 

[sjt18]

the problem with making a genuine pension plan is the gap where we have to fund both the pension plan and the current retirees. i can't see a way to do both without significantly raising social security taxes.

You'd have to increase the retirement age and raise more revenue. One way to raise more revenue would be to significantly raise the earnings limits for recipients.

 

[NEO]

i have this argument with my father all the time. yes they called it a retirement fund, but it's been a pure tax for at least 30 years now. no one expects a return on their other taxes. i don't see how this is much different. at the VERY least we need to raise the retirement age.

How bout no? How bout we actually reward workers in this country and kill all the welfare programs. You work you get rewarded. You don't work you starve. The problem with SS is that it is not being used correctly. If this was any other business and not the government the way the funds are handled would be illegal.

 

[Arclight]

"every person working in this country has been paying into it"

1. Not true! (a lot of people have pension programs)
2. It is another worthless FDR program.
3. 401K's are more lucrative and wise.
4. The Dem-Libs unlocked SSN and looted it.

 

[sjt18]

the problem with making a genuine pension plan is the gap where we have to fund both the pension plan and the current retirees. i can't see a way to do both without significantly raising social security taxes.

I had another thought. How about exchanging a person's "personal" SSI fund into negotiable US bonds over a period of time? Or better yet, create a "land note" and progressively exchanging the promisary notes in SSI for gov't land holdings in the west? The gov't could offer the land well below market value and come out fine. The recipient would get an investment that will appreciate and in the case of grazing lands and timber... a residual income.

 

[KentheOrange]

I think its more along the lines of the general fund being raided to go to Social Security. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all collected taxes whether it be income, medicare, social security, or whatnot all goes into the same pot. I think there being a Social Security lock box somewhere is the big myth.

There is a Social Security lock box. Unfortunately it is filled with IOUs from Congress. The "bankrupt" date is the date that SS is no longer solvent with current cash flow and has to start collecting those IOUs.

This will be a double problem for Congress as it will no longer have access to SS surplus funds and will have to repay those debts, something Congress is not accustomed to doing.

 

[VolsNSkinsFan]

I have been paying for several years. My personal income has avg'd well above the median American income so I have paid quite a bit more than most. So what you are saying is that I should get nothing, right?

FTR, that IS my expectation.

I am in the same boat. The money should go into a seperate account where you can get a statement and see your $$ (maybe even possibly growing). If you have a certain amount of assets when you retire, then your account is "adjusted". Nothing might be a bit extreme, but some people should get nothing, and some should get a reduced amount, while the majority should get it all. If you die before your 60's, that $$ should be rolled into your heirs IRA and can only be used for things like purcahse of 1st home, School, and major health expenses

But for the Govt to send Warren Buffet a $1000 check every month is stupid

 

[Vol423]

the problem with making a genuine pension plan is the gap where we have to fund both the pension plan and the current retirees. i can't see a way to do both without significantly raising social security taxes.

This is the part that I don't think most people understand.