Thoughts on the Current State of Program

[MsSportsGuy]

I am just a random, average fan with no ties to UT but someone who loves basketball, respected Pat Summitt and followed her career and the Lady Vols since her retirement.

A lot of disappointment and frustration has been on this board for the past few days about the loss to VT. Much of the vitriol is directed at Holly Warlick. I didn't have much of an opinion about her until this year other than I did not envy her taking over for a legend. It is rare someone steps into a similar situation and satisfies most people. On paper and in a few games I saw the last few seasons, it appeared she was doing okay. I thought a healthy Russell plus Diamond would give this squad the extra push it needed to get back to top 5 status and honestly figured everyone but UConn and maybe Baylor was fair game.

I then watched as no recruit in the Top 100 committed to UT. Of course other programs have moved towards the top and some of the choices make sense on paper, but I was floored that the LVs came up empty. That's an embarrassment to the program and while it isn't the end of the world, how likely is it a program stays nationally successful without at least one or two signees?

The somewhat ugly start to this season makes me wonder if this is truly the beginning of the end. I hope the LVs prove me wrong and reach the FF, or even manage to play well enough in the tournament to be close to the end. However, the anemic offense combined with no sense of urgency makes me wonder what is truly going wrong.

I do think the coaches, players, and administration all have some responsibility for this situation. Holly Warlick and company may not be the best coaches for this situation. The current roster of players may lack the chemistry and skills to produce. However, others have pointed out the university does not appear to have the same level of commitment to the LVs as before. The women's athletic department was its own entity until a few years ago and maybe the resources once available aren't there. Do the AD, President, and trustees want a highly successful program?

Feel free to comment, criticize, and educate me where I may be wrong.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

You started a second thread about the State Of The Lady Vols Program, when the subject is already being discussed in another thread with almost the exact same heading. Why?

 

[MsSportsGuy]

Fair statement about the title. My opinion of the other thread I posted in was the posts were more about recruits and who the LVs were missing out on. The thread I started gave my broader thoughts about the program including recruiting but went as far as administrative support.

 

[LadyVol1908]

You're new here so we'll give you a one time pass Welcome to the board btw. It's been pretty dismal here lately so adjust accordingly lol

 

[aaronvol]

so...all this women's basketball talk has me thinking...How many points do you think we will beat NW by in the bowl game?

 

[Sandvol]

Fair statement about the title. My opinion of the other thread I posted in was the posts were more about recruits and who the LVs were missing out on. The thread I started gave my broader thoughts about the program including recruiting but went as far as administrative support.

Don't worry about it. He's not the arbiter of message board correctness.

 

[Volfan2012]

We've went from dominating teams like Notre Dame, Stanford, Texas, SC, Kentucky etc. while standing toe to toe with UConn to hoping we can beat Va. Tech and Albany. That is a huge slide for this program and it is all on Holly and her Assistants. It is their job to recruit players that are in to winning and giving 100 percent on the court.
Also her job to give them the proper instructions and programs to be successful. Neither has happened and the program has regressed to where we may not be a top 20 team.

 

[gule]

We've went from dominating teams like Notre Dame, Stanford, Texas, SC, Kentucky etc. while standing toe to toe with UConn to hoping we can beat Va. Tech and Albany. That is a huge slide for this program and it is all on Holly and her Assistants. It is their job to recruit players that are in to winning and giving 100 percent on the court.
Also her job to give them the proper instructions and programs to be successful. Neither has happened and the program has regressed to where we may not be a top 20 team.

"truest post of the century" award winner right there.

 

[VolEire]

so...all this women's basketball talk has me thinking...How many points do you think we will beat NW by in the bowl game?

17

 

[gule]

so...all this women's basketball talk has me thinking...How many points do you think we will beat NW by in the bowl game?

84 - 82 Northwestern by 2

 

[UCMiami]

I am a visitor and a fan of 'that' program, and I am not trying to troll here - but I have a serious question about the 'AD and administration don't care, or are actively trying to dismantle' line of thought that seems to permeate TN WCBB fans and has spread from TN fan sites out to the larger WBB fan base. It gets stated as fact and never challenged, and I just wonder how true it is, or if it is more a creation of a 'fanatically loyal to Pat' group that worships everything she did and the way she did everything.

Pat built a fabulous program and took it to the stratosphere and built an incredible national and international following. By the time she had to step down she was one of the longest tenured U of TN employees, and by far the most powerful. No AD or person in the administration could afford to cross her without drawing down the wrath of a very large and vocal crowd of followers. Which meant that even if proposed changes within the athletic department were completely logical and would benefit the University as a whole, if Pat didn't approve they were not made. This would not be unique to TN - it happens in every large organization over time, where powerful individuals protect their turf.

From outside, the changes being made at TN do not appear illogical - there were duplicated departments running in parallel that created additional overhead and expense. Consolidation seems like a 'smart business move.' But as in any corporation that goes through reorganization, not everyone is going to be happy and some people will have their jobs greatly altered or eliminated and some people will not accept the changes quietly.

Obviously Pat guarded her program with the same tenacity as she coached her team and with her power, while she was there, none of these changes would have been possible. With her gone, and with some of her 'people' unhappy with the changes the word got out to her fanatics, and the hue and cry began. For her fanatics, any change to the way she did things was sacrilege and they reacted in that way.

But is what is happening at TN really 'bad' or just different? Is there any real proof that Women's programs as a whole are being worse served than they were? WCBB is no longer its own kingdom within the athletic department, but are they being starved of resources or just being integrated into the whole department? Is it possible that some women's programs are actually benefitting from a more even distribution of assets amongst the women's programs?

From afar, I really don't know, and I am really asking for information as opposed to the more emotion statements I have seen and read. Because if the meme that has been created is not actually based in fact, it is something that true fans of the women's programs should start refuting, because it is not a positive story to be promoting for the school or those programs.

 

[teacherdean]

so...all this women's basketball talk has me thinking...How many points do you think we will beat NW by in the bowl game?

Tenn 24 NW 10

 

[MsSportsGuy]

Thank you for your post UCMiami. This is the type of thing I was hoping to get when I started the topic. I find myself agreeing with some of what you are saying. The major changes UT athletics has undergone the past few years make fiscal sense. I am a fan of women's basketball but know it has to be subsidized by football and men's basketball in virtually all cases.

However, it isn't as though UT had their own women's athletic's department only to make Pat Summitt happy. It was a decision by the university after Title IX came into being and there were a handful of universities who did the same thing. I have true sympathy for the long time fans who have supported the team with ticket sales, contributions, apparel, and rabid devotion. I am also sad though because the LVs were a true national brand for women's basketball for so many years thanks to Pat, her terrific players, and the support of the university. There is no doubt UConn, ND, Baylor, and now SC can continue to carry the torch but it is understandable the UT fans, including myself, don't like to see their squad fade away with apparently little support from the leadership because of "cost", "branding", or general apathy.

A post in another threat indicated what may help save UT is for the legends of the program to speak publicly about what has transpired in hopes the leadership decides to return to the glory days and put as much as possible in the sport.

For the record though, I am not sure Holly is the best person to lead the ship back to the top even if she had the same level of support as Pat. She has done well for the past few years to bridge the gap but maybe the school needs another person to lead the program if it wants to be top 3 again.

 

[CAVPUT]

Sadly, I think Pat...or at least her legend...was the UT women's program. Now that she's retired, I think we're headed to La Tech or ODU levels. We're no longer a top program. Frankly, I don't think we're even top 10 anymore.

 

[teacherdean]

I am a visitor and a fan of 'that' program, and I am not trying to troll here - but I have a serious question about the 'AD and administration don't care, or are actively trying to dismantle' line of thought that seems to permeate TN WCBB fans and has spread from TN fan sites out to the larger WBB fan base. It gets stated as fact and never challenged, and I just wonder how true it is, or if it is more a creation of a 'fanatically loyal to Pat' group that worships everything she did and the way she did everything.

Pat built a fabulous program and took it to the stratosphere and built an incredible national and international following. By the time she had to step down she was one of the longest tenured U of TN employees, and by far the most powerful. No AD or person in the administration could afford to cross her without drawing down the wrath of a very large and vocal crowd of followers. Which meant that even if proposed changes within the athletic department were completely logical and would benefit the University as a whole, if Pat didn't approve they were not made. This would not be unique to TN - it happens in every large organization over time, where powerful individuals protect their turf.

From outside, the changes being made at TN do not appear illogical - there were duplicated departments running in parallel that created additional overhead and expense. Consolidation seems like a 'smart business move.' But as in any corporation that goes through reorganization, not everyone is going to be happy and some people will have their jobs greatly altered or eliminated and some people will not accept the changes quietly.

Obviously Pat guarded her program with the same tenacity as she coached her team and with her power, while she was there, none of these changes would have been possible. With her gone, and with some of her 'people' unhappy with the changes the word got out to her fanatics, and the hue and cry began. For her fanatics, any change to the way she did things was sacrilege and they reacted in that way.

But is what is happening at TN really 'bad' or just different? Is there any real proof that Women's programs as a whole are being worse served than they were? WCBB is no longer its own kingdom within the athletic department, but are they being starved of resources or just being integrated into the whole department? Is it possible that some women's programs are actually benefitting from a more even distribution of assets amongst the women's programs?

From afar, I really don't know, and I am really asking for information as opposed to the more emotion statements I have seen and read. Because if the meme that has been created is not actually based in fact, it is something that true fans of the women's programs should start refuting, because it is not a positive story to be promoting for the school or those programs.

I do not think anyone can say for a fact that the AD and Administration are against the Lady Vols, that is mostly frustration talking and wanting an elite program. Some of the dispointment can be linked to the fact that there are Pat Worshipers, however, that ship has sailed, no more to return. Many fans are just disappointed how things are going. Some of the concern is warranted, no recruits for 2016, no post recruited in the last three years, failure to make the final four, awful offense, dropping and dropping from the top 5, lack of chemistry, players can't shoot consistently, lack of an aggressive post, one dementional offense, mulplicity of turnovers for the last four years and a coach who says if she knew what the problem was, she would fix it, etc.

To be honest, things started to fall off prior to Holly taking the reins from Pat, however, there have been few improvements in the program. I agree that taking over for a legend is tough, however, if you can't stand the heat you need to get out of the kitchen. Holly should have expected that to be the case when she took over the program. I also think Holly would be better off if she had spent ten or fifteen years as an assistant coach or a head coach in another successful program. Most of her experience has been at the feet of Pat. What Pat did in the past may not work today. Pat won with aggressive tough post players with little dependence upon the outside shot.

The biggest problem with Holly's offense is it easy to predict and easy to defend. Everyone in America know that teams are going to play zone against us because we have a very limited offense. If we can't get it in the middle, we are in trouble. Our outside shot is almost non existent. If we can find a way to bust the zone by shooting the ball from outside then the LV's are a top 4 team. All we can hope is that the outside shooting and turnover margin gets better. I know pro Holly fans will disagree with me, and that is okay with me, but I really think this program needs some fresh imaginary eyes.