TN H.S. football sucks

[THUNDERWANG]

I have seen it mentioned many times on the board,

"Why aren't there any good recruits in the state of Tennessee?",

"High school football players in Tenn. are just as good they just don't get the exposure."

"There are a lot of diamonds in the ruff that would be great if we would only give them a chance."


or my favorite "We should sign guys from Tennessee who really want to play for the Vols, that way they'll be good because they will want it more."...........as if desire can make you jump higher or run faster. It doesn't work I've tried.

breaking news: TENNESSEE HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL BLOWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

obviously this is a generalization and there are some exceptions to the rule but overall it is a cold hard fact.

If you are wondering why this is the case it's because your youth football leagues suck and for the most part there is not as much community support for athletics. Ergo less children are playing high quality organized sports at a young age so fewer people in Tennessee become elite prospects.

Don't worry though, Atlanta is only a couple hours away and anyone with common sense knows that The University of Georgia gargles you know what so we will be O.K. Go VOLS Mother F'er

 

[orangepeel]

If you are wondering why this is the case it's because your youth football leagues suck and for the most part there is not as much community support for athletics. Ergo less children are playing high quality organized sports at a young age so fewer people in Tennessee become elite prospects.

I agree with this part. Although we have "pockets" of good schools in every classification throughout the State. I still think we have some kids being over looked because they come from smaller schools,but they are few and far between.

JMO but I think Tennessee football is getting better,but its going to take some time.Heck, the school I played at many years ago just got on a REAL weight lifting program less than 5 yrs ago and I've already noticed good results from just that.

Getting back to the youth football leagues,I agree 100%,and the biggest problem I see in my area with the youth league is what I call "daddy ball" you know the coach plays his son at QB and he has ZERO QB ability.We had one kid in our community that played QB on a State Championship youth league team out of Nashville (I think it was Naashville) and when he started playing youth league in the area he lived in the coach played his son over this kid...the coaches son couldn't hold the other kids jock strap! As you can imagine the team stunk it up because the kid didn't have a clue,while the athletic kid played out of position. :banghead2:

 

[romevol]

Tennessee high school football doesn't "suck" as you put it. There are many well coached football teams in the state of Tennessee. After 32 years of coaching in Tennessee and Georgia I will offer a few reasons why I think football in Georgia is better than Tennessee. 1. Population. Atlanta area has more people than the state of Tennessee. 2. Emphasis. North Ga. H.S. football is alot like Tennessee H.S. football with the exception of a few programs. When you get to Atlanta and especially south Georgia it is ridiculous. The size of the schools, booster club money, coaches pay, GHSA emphasis on football instead of basketball, etc. 3. Population. 4. Talent and Participation. Kids in Georgia play football!!!!! There aren't many kids in Georgia High Schools that can play football walking the halls, They play. In Tennessee you might face, on the average, 3 to 4 legit D1 prospects a year. In Georgia you will face at least 1 kid with D1 talent every Friday night. Practically everyone has them. The talent level is amazing! 5. Population. There are exceptions on both sides of the border, but Georgia is one heck of a place to coach high school football.

 

[bigorange#1]

Tennessee high school football doesn't "suck" as you put it. There are many well coached football teams in the state of Tennessee. After 32 years of coaching in Tennessee and Georgia I will offer a few reasons why I think football in Georgia is better than Tennessee. 1. Population. Atlanta area has more people than the state of Tennessee. 2. Emphasis. North Ga. H.S. football is alot like Tennessee H.S. football with the exception of a few programs. When you get to Atlanta and especially south Georgia it is ridiculous. The size of the schools, booster club money, coaches pay, GHSA emphasis on football instead of basketball, etc. 3. Population. 4. Talent and Participation. Kids in Georgia play football!!!!! There aren't many kids in Georgia High Schools that can play football walking the halls, They play. In Tennessee you might face, on the average, 3 to 4 legit D1 prospects a year. In Georgia you will face at least 1 kid with D1 talent every Friday night. Practically everyone has them. The talent level is amazing! 5. Population. There are exceptions on both sides of the border, but Georgia is one heck of a place to coach high school football.

Good post romevol.....

 

[JManVolFan]

Here in Cleveland it seemed when I was in H.S.(Bradley) the football team consisted of every kid that jus wanted to play a sport could get on the football team. It was a sport that got the leftovers from Basketball and Baseball, track, wrestling etc... Those sports actually had tryouts and if you weren't in prime condition and athletically gifted to a degree you wouldn't make the team. As for football, if you went to class and knew how to put on clothes successfully you were on the team. Over 3/4 of the team in our case didn't really give a crap about football, they just thought it was cool to be in a sport click, and be able to wear jersies on fridays......This is why the majority of our true athletes wrestled and tried to stay away from football.

 

[Squoshua17]

Being an avid TN HS football fan (Go Green Wave), I've noticed alot of problems at the high school level: The size of schools here doesn't allow for 3,000-4,000 enrollees like other states. For instance... I'm from Gallatin, and there are now 2 schools there, Gallatin High and Station Camp-each with around 1500 students. Station Camp was built about 7 years ago, while Gallatin has been around for a long time. Now imagine if instead of building a 1500 capacity school, they built a 3,000 capacity. You instantaneously double the talent pool. This currently would be somewhat unfair since the largest schools in TN have only around 2,000. But imagine mid size towns across the state building schools that rival the size of the ones in TX, OH, FL, CA, GA and others.... We could have been at the same level as these guys, but state and local planning do not want "big" schools. Just in middle TN alone, you have Hendersonville, Gallatin, White House, Franklin, Brentwood,Lebanon, Mt. Juliet, among others that could have potentially built one large school rather than dividing into 2. Cross-town rivalry is great... But the cause and effect, of pitting two 1500 student schools(in the same town) against each other instead of having one 3000 student school play against the next town over is that the "good coach to player" ratio goes way down. Imagine coaches like Gary Rankin, George Quarrels, Phillip Shaddowens, and other dominant public school coaches having double the talent to sift through. My thought is that the tssaa just wanted a bigger playoff system, more games, and more money. That's evident just from last year in making the problem even worse by going adding a 6A class bracket. We have the kids here just like everybody else.... Its just that our system doesn't allow for "big name jobs", since our schools are so small. Just a thought.

 

[SamQB7]

I was one of the better athletes in the state when I played football and baseball. I won team awards and a varsity letter during all four years in football. I was all-region my junior and senior year. After putting up 2300 total yards from scrimmage (passing, rushing, and receiving), personally scoring 13 tds and passing for 4 more, I received my HUGE, and lone, scholarship offer from the NAIA powerhouse Lambuth University in Jackson, TN. As I said, I wasn't All-State but I was a good enough athlete to compete at the 4A high school football level and do some good things. Being that as it may, after playing at Lambuth for 2 years as a wide receiver, there was NOOOO way that I would ever had the ability to compete at the division 1 or even division 1-AA. Tennessee just doesn't produce as many super high quality athletes as other states, that's just all there is to it. Sorry guys, I love TN. I grew up there, played ball there, and still call it home, but that is the truth.

 

[arTfuldodger]

Being an avid TN HS football fan (Go Green Wave), I've noticed alot of problems at the high school level: The size of schools here doesn't allow for 3,000-4,000 enrollees like other states. For instance... I'm from Gallatin, and there are now 2 schools there, Gallatin High and Station Camp-each with around 1500 students. Station Camp was built about 7 years ago, while Gallatin has been around for a long time. Now imagine if instead of building a 1500 capacity school, they built a 3,000 capacity. You instantaneously double the talent pool. This currently would be somewhat unfair since the largest schools in TN have only around 2,000. But imagine mid size towns across the state building schools that rival the size of the ones in TX, OH, FL, CA, GA and others.... We could have been at the same level as these guys, but state and local planning do not want "big" schools. Just in middle TN alone, you have Hendersonville, Gallatin, White House, Franklin, Brentwood,Lebanon, Mt. Juliet, among others that could have potentially built one large school rather than dividing into 2. Cross-town rivalry is great... But the cause and effect, of pitting two 1500 student schools(in the same town) against each other instead of having one 3000 student school play against the next town over is that the "good coach to player" ratio goes way down. Imagine coaches like Gary Rankin, George Quarrels, Phillip Shaddowens, and other dominant public school coaches having double the talent to sift through. My thought is that the tssaa just wanted a bigger playoff system, more games, and more money. That's evident just from last year in making the problem even worse by going adding a 6A class bracket. We have the kids here just like everybody else.... Its just that our system doesn't allow for "big name jobs", since our schools are so small. Just a thought.

Great Post. I'd call it unintended consequence.
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[Squoshua17]

I agree with ya Sam. But the problem isn't that we just don't have the kids. It's deeper than that. There is a reason we don't have the kids. I think there is a huge lack of player development among coaches. People are still people, no matter where they are. They all have the same potential, right? So the problem lies in the development of that potential. Don't get me wrong, there are coaches here in TN that produce div1 prospects every year.... But like I said in my post before, imagine if those coaches had bigger schools at which to work. It would be a chain reaction. Bigger schools=larger talent pool=more atheletic funds=higher paying coach's salaries=ability to lure in better coaches=better player development=better football players from the state of Tennessee.

 

[arTfuldodger]

I was one of the better athletes in the state when I played football and baseball. I won team awards and a varsity letter during all four years in football. I was all-region my junior and senior year. After putting up 2300 total yards from scrimmage (passing, rushing, and receiving), personally scoring 13 tds and passing for 4 more, I received my HUGE, and lone, scholarship offer from the NAIA powerhouse Lambuth University in Jackson, TN. As I said, I wasn't All-State but I was a good enough athlete to compete at the 4A high school football level and do some good things. Being that as it may, after playing at Lambuth for 2 years as a wide receiver, there was NOOOO way that I would ever had the ability to compete at the division 1 or even division 1-AA. Tennessee just doesn't produce as many super high quality athletes as other states, that's just all there is to it. Sorry guys, I love TN. I grew up there, played ball there, and still call it home, but that is the truth.

Sam not ragging you as I played NAIA basketball. But when I walked away my conclusion was that I couldn't play D1 because of MY ABILITY. Not bc of my school or state. I will agree it may hinder a developing athlete that his competition is a bit weaker. But the ones that want to improve and truly have the skill set, find a way to get it done.Again not raggin you, but the reason you didn't play is because you weren't a D1 kid, plain and simple.(And to anyone who says a kid with average talent can't work his way (determination) up the talent level. See Steve Nash. Heres a few of many out of Chattanooga since 2002 (Gerald Riggs Jr.Rbank HS -had a little help with his name- UT, Dominique Mcduffey RBank Hs- App st, Keon Williams RB HS- Mtsu, Fletcher williams RB HS-mtsu,Jaq Mclendon-Baylor- UT, Kevin Cooper Baylor-UT, Bj coleman Mcallie-UT, ? Apyan Hixson High- Cincy, Bullocks brothers Hixson High- NEB, Saints, Lions,Tony Brown- Titans, Tradelle sands-Oakland Raiders,Shane Reviez- Rhea Co.- UT., Devin Mathis- Baylor to UT(special circumstance) The Steele kid from memphis who is projected the around the 20th best RB in the draft, is from Franklin TN. And FWIW, in Chatt alone this year there is a PF/C from Tyner committed to UCONN, and Mcallie has the #1 sophomore SG in America. WowPosted via VolNation Mobile

 

[SamQB7]

I agree with ya Sam. But the problem isn't that we just don't have the kids. It's deeper than that. There is a reason we don't have the kids. I think there is a huge lack of player development among coaches. People are still people, no matter where they are. They all have the same potential, right? So the problem lies in the development of that potential. Don't get me wrong, there are coaches here in TN that produce div1 prospects every year.... But like I said in my post before, imagine if those coaches had bigger schools at which to work. It would be a chain reaction. Bigger schools=larger talent pool=more atheletic funds=higher paying coach's salaries=ability to lure in better coaches=better player development=better football players from the state of Tennessee.

You definitely have a very good and true point. I will tell you right now that I had horrible coaches when I was in high school. I did what I did when I played ball 90% on my god given talent and 10% of the coaching. All the coaches seemed to do at my school was show us the X's and O's of how to run the plays and expect us to figure out the rest. We hardly ever did fundamentals like tackling, carrying the ball in your outside arm, or tip drills, etc...... You have a great plan for the state of TN football and I think you should refine it and send it in to someone. JMO.

 

[Squoshua17]

Great Post. I'd call it unintended consequence.
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I think you're right kush. I'm also of the mindset that education in general would have benefitted from building schools that would facilitate an entire town, rather than just some of it. Of course a bigger building costs more on the front end, but in the long run it is a better option IMO. Think about it this way... If you have 2 ford rangers that you use every day, and your friend has 1 ford f-250 that is loaded to the gills.... Sure, his costs more initially. But who spends more on gas? Who spends more for oil changes, tires, and regular upkeep.... Those ford rangers start getting pretty dang expensive, and all the while, both of them put together couldn't perform the tasks that the f-250 is capable of. My point is that if the State of TN would get over themselves and not freak out and build a school every time a teacher has to pull in a few extra chairs into a classroom, they could be patient and build larger ones that will accomodate more students.

 

[SamQB7]

Sam not ragging you as I played NAIA basketball. But when I walked away my conclusion was that I couldn't play D1 because of MY ABILITY. Not bc of my school or state. I will agree it may hinder a developing athlete that his competition is a bit weaker. But the ones that want to improve and truly have the skill set, find a way to get it done.Again not raggin you, but the reason you didn't play is because you weren't a D1 kid, plain and simple.(And to anyone who says a kid with average talent can't work his way (determination) up the talent level. See Steve Nash. Heres a few of many out of Chattanooga since 2002 (Gerald Riggs Jr.Rbank HS -had a little help with his name- UT, Dominique Mcduffey RBank Hs- App st, Keon Williams RB HS- Mtsu, Fletcher williams RB HS-mtsu,Jaq Mclendon-Baylor- UT, Kevin Cooper Baylor-UT, Bj coleman Mcallie-UT, ? Apyan Hixson High- Cincy, Bullocks brothers Hixson High- NEB, Saints, Lions,Tony Brown- Titans, Tradelle sands-Raiders.
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We are all friends here and there is no need for you to tell me that you aren't ragging me. I know that I didn't have the ability to play ball at the D-1 level, I even said so in my post that you responded to (you might have missed it). TN does produce great talent year in and year out, just not as many as a lot of states. School like Maryville, Riverdale, all of the Williamson county schools, have the money to bring in the coaches that know what they are doing. Those coaches can refine the talent bed that they have, and there is alot of talent in TN. See Squoshua17's reply to my post.

 

[arTfuldodger]

I think you're right kush. I'm also of the mindset that education in general would have benefitted from building schools that would facilitate an entire town, rather than just some of it. Of course a bigger building costs more on the front end, but in the long run it is a better option IMO. Think about it this way... If you have 2 ford rangers that you use every day, and your friend has 1 ford f-250 that is loaded to the gills.... Sure, his costs more initially. But who spends more on gas? Who spends more for oil changes, tires, and regular upkeep.... Those ford rangers start getting pretty dang expensive, and all the while, both of them put together couldn't perform the tasks that the f-250 is capable of. My point is that if the State of TN would get over themselves and not freak out and build a school every time a teacher has to pull in a few extra chairs into a classroom, they could be patient and build larger ones that will accomodate more students.

Yes I've noticed lately that TN seems to always be buiding a new school. They've built at least 2 brand new schools in Chatt in the last two years. East Hamilton and Signal Mountain. The signal mountain thing is a joke as everyone knows it was shady business that got the "mountain people" there own school. And I'm not familiar with other states and the rate at which they build schools, but common sense tells me we might should close the terrible ones and spread those students out in the successful schools, while using the same money to upgrade the current schools. Although, now that I bring that^ up I think there is a LOT more to it than that. Jus sayin, it is TN still.
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[arTfuldodger]

We are all friends here and there is no need for you to tell me that you aren't ragging me. I know that I didn't have the ability to play ball at the D-1 level, I even said so in my post that you responded to (you might have missed it). TN does produce great talent year in and year out, just not as many as a lot of states. School like Maryville, Riverdale, all of the Williamson county schools, have the money to bring in the coaches that know what they are doing. Those coaches can refine the talent bed that they have, and there is alot of talent in TN. See Squoshua17's reply to my post.

Cool, I must have misread your post. (I pointed out not ragging you bc in other forums on VN, the same post I made to you would have started a "cross-state line" pissing contest LOL)
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[SamQB7]

Cool, I must have misread your post. (I pointed out not ragging you bc in other forums on VN, the same post I made to you would have started a "cross-state line" pissing contest LOL)
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Yea, people can get quite stupid on some of these forums. I value honest opinions and strictly ignore any thing else. GBO!

 

[Squoshua17]

Having said all that, I don't think bigger is ALWAYS better(McGavock, Glencliff) But look at Maryville. Before re-classification, it was the biggest school in 4a. Granted, maryville is an affluent area.... But because of more money, they were able to hire a good coach in George Quarrels. And at one point, he actually won 70-something games in a row, and has produced several D1 kids. Same goes for Gary Rankin at Alcoa. D1 prospects are a combination of raw talent and how well the coach has developed and used their skills. In a like manner, a coach can kill a player's chances of becoming a D1 prospect. I hate to bash any coaches. But in my home town this year, we had a sr. rb that had never played rb before. Prior to this season, he was a wr/db (on a team that passes 8 times a game, but the qb will run 15 times). Well, we lost our tb from last year, and the junior wr/db,5'10'' 185lbs (who had beefed up a little bit) stepped into the rb spot. To everyone's surprise, he averaged 9 yards a carry this year and had 1300 total on the season. Problem is, when you divide 1300 yards by a 9 yrd avg... That's 140 something attempts. And 144 attempts divided by 13 games is 11 a game, while the qb(who isn't as good of a runner) got 15 carries a game. Our coach destroyed this kid's potential scholarship offers. He could have been getting the ball 20 times a game, which would have put him over 2,000 yards probably, and that steps a rb into a whole new league of offers. This goes on everywhere here. 6'5'' wr's and 4.4/40yrd time rb's get stuck having to play for coaches that run a wing-t, and they'll never have the chance to shine(I hate the wing-t), skilled atheletes across the board are put in systems that don't allow standout players, and what I hate the most in this state is QB development. I dvr'd the east west TN HS game, and watched it a couple times..... The best QB's in the state cannot manage a game as well as mediocre QB's in Texas and Florida. That's sad, because its not their fault... They just aren't being taught.

 

[Squoshua17]

Well, look at the 70's and 80's.... In TN there were fewer schools, and we put alot more kids in division 1 schools. Now, kids from the same bloodlines-in addition to even more talent-are forced to be divided up among triple the amount of coaches we had back then. I realize the population has gone up since then, but pop. increase should have HELPED us. Instead, it hurt us because we built way too many schools and didn't have enough good coaches to go around.

 

[JManVolFan]

If Bradley Co. would combine our 3 H.S. together we would definately be pushing the 6k attendence mark. For our edumacation to be sooooo crappy in Tn. overall and it seems they are trying to combat it by putting up new schools all over, it appearantly isn't working. I for one would be up for a mega school IF it meant state titles hahah but thats jus me.

 

[MOOOOONEY]

I actually think HS football in and around knoxville is getting better, from what I have seen a lot of the schools are now running some type of spread offense not necessarily a spread option but a spread offense, Anderson County has a nice scheme spreading the field and throwing the ball, Oak Ridge has went to a more spread offense, Clinton, Farragut and most ever team in this region are running some type of spread, I think there are a lot of great athletes in TN and east TN, I have a few theories on why the state does not produce a lot of D1 football talent.

1. Baseball- for some reason baseball seems to be the most popular sport in east TN, a lot of kids play travel ball in the summer and show up to fall camp 2 weeks before fb season.

2. Middle school- until recently there were not a lot of middle school football programs so a kid may not have played football for 2 years when he reaches high school. Clinton middle school started a football program about 8 years ago and it is starting to pay off at the hs level in clinton.

Basketball- see same as baseball

Camps- I dont know if a lot of kids in this area go to football camps. The Wilson kid at AC is 6'4 210 has the size, I think I read or someone told me he ran a sub 4.6 which is not great speed but fast enough, not a lot of interest in him.

 

[THUNDERWANG]

Tennessee high school football doesn't "suck" as you put it. There are many well coached football teams in the state of Tennessee. After 32 years of coaching in Tennessee and Georgia I will offer a few reasons why I think football in Georgia is better than Tennessee. 1. Population. Atlanta area has more people than the state of Tennessee. 2. Emphasis. North Ga. H.S. football is alot like Tennessee H.S. football with the exception of a few programs. When you get to Atlanta and especially south Georgia it is ridiculous. The size of the schools, booster club money, coaches pay, GHSA emphasis on football instead of basketball, etc. 3. Population. 4. Talent and Participation. Kids in Georgia play football!!!!! There aren't many kids in Georgia High Schools that can play football walking the halls, They play. In Tennessee you might face, on the average, 3 to 4 legit D1 prospects a year. In Georgia you will face at least 1 kid with D1 talent every Friday night. Practically everyone has them. The talent level is amazing! 5. Population. There are exceptions on both sides of the border, but Georgia is one heck of a place to coach high school football.

100%agree I am from North Atlanta

 

[Ohio Vol]

What is the caliber of coaching down in Tennessee? My reasons for asking are this.

My experience is (as the name suggests) in Ohio. Here we've got something like 720 schools that play football, and thanks to the somewhat square shape of the state, the farthest distance to travel is about 300 miles. Realistically speaking though, it's very uncommon for a team to travel more than three hours for a game. And no matter where you may be located, there's a school fairly close by. When I was a senior in HS, we had four two-hour trips to make in the regular season, and that was really pushing it.

Ohio has a population of around 11 million, Tennessee around 6 million. Ohio produces an insane amount of talent every year, which is somewhat striking considering the following factors:
1) Ohio has no spring practice
2) There are lengthy no-contact periods between coaches and players/potential players
3) There are limits on practice time with a ball (eight days, I think) before two-a-days
4) Two weeks only of two-a-days, although this was expanded a couple years ago
5) Although a coach is not required to be a teacher or work in the district, state law requires that a head coaching or other paid position be automatically granted first to a teacher, then an administrator, then an outsider (which is how I got booted last time; a teacher put in for my spot)
6) Most districts allow payment for one head coach and (at most) two assistants
7) Coaching contracts are supplemental in nature; with the exception of one person who I know got $5500, the most I've seen is around $3100
8) That $3100 is for a district that actually had money; most head coaching ones I've seen are less than $2500 with the assistants substantially less than that
9) Significant clustering of talent, made easier by the shift toward open-enrollment public schools

What's most interesting is that the rise of Columbus-area public schools also happens to coincide with schools splitting. Dublin went from one high school to two (now three); the first year, one of them won a state title. Hilliard went from one to two (now three), and one of them has won two of the past four state titles. Pickerington went from one to two, and one is becoming a major power. Olentangy was never anything, but they split to two (now three) and one has really stepped up.

Basically, there is a bit of adversity that theoretically should put the state as a whole at a significant disadvantage in terms of caliber of play and caliber of talent, but every year it's a top-five state. Is it true that the coaching is that good, and is that what separates this state from the others? Is good coaching what separates Tennessee from Georgia and Alabama, or is it really the money and the boosters?

 

[orangepeel]

Is good coaching what separates Tennessee from Georgia and Alabama, or is it really the money and the boosters?

I'd say it's both,but I would put the majority on poor coaching. From what I can tell the O/D line isn't coached at a very high level with most schools,and of course if you have a crappy O-line the RB's suffer,and the QB suffers....which leads to the WR's suffering. IMO the O-line is the most overlooked position(s) at least in the Middle Tennessee area.

 

[tennfever]

Anybody know anything about big kid from Knox Catholic blew out knee as Soph didn't play Junior year and played as a Senior

 

[The Dude]

Emphasis. North Ga. H.S. football is alot like Tennessee H.S. football with the exception of a few programs. When you get to Atlanta and especially south Georgia it is ridiculous. The size of the schools, booster club money, coaches pay, GHSA emphasis on football instead of basketball, etc.

A good friend of mine coached at a lower/middle class HS near Dalton that's 1/3 Mexican and horrible at football. Their facilities beat Maryville's. From what he's told me, nearly every program in N GA beats anything in TN, as far as support and money.

It's all about youth programs imo. Blount Co has maybe the best one in the state and certainly the best in the Knoxville area. That's main reason why the U of Maryville and Alcoa produce talent and win.