TN is underrated and will still make a bowl (numbers)

#1

checkerboard03

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#1
Tl;dr version
1) TN will probably lose to Auburn, but beat Vandy and UK and be bowl eligible. Yeah, lots of people could tell you that, but...

2) Computer rankings will tell you UT is 40th or so. I'd argue that TN is actually closer to 25 or 30, but for one reason or another simply can't compete with the very best teams, and that makes us look worse that we really are.

Long-ish post, read as much or as little as you find interesting :) So... how does TN beat SC and get killed by Missouri?

Could be that TN quit at Mizzou, could be home field, could be the QB.

Or maybe it's none of that. There's a pretty simple method that explains which games TN has won and lost, and by how much. We look at the final margin of TN's games, and the Massey computer ranking of their opponent. At first this does a bad job or predicting results. But if you ln-transform (more in a second) opponent's Massey rating the relationship is very strong. There's an attached graph showing this.

Basically, the fact that ln-transforming opponent rating makes the fit much stronger tells us that TN can't hang with the very best teams, the teams rated in the top 10 or 15 by the computers, but we should expect to be able to compete with anyone ranked around 25 or lower.

This is not good news for next week's game vs. Auburn, but does mean that we've got a really good shot of beating Vandy and UK and getting to a bowl game.

If you look at the graph, the exceptions make sense. In a few games we did worse that we should have (points above the diagonal line) USA? We really half-a$$ed that game and would do better if we played them again. UF? We'd do better if we didn't start Peterman. In a few games we did better (points below diagonal). WKU? Loads of turnovers. USC? Best game of the year for TN.

About computer rankings - lots of us, including me, look at these and call out things that look wrong. But honestly, after 9 games, these guys have a TON of data to work with and are generally really good at their jobs. Of course it's not 100% and you still have to play the games, but they are pretty good.

Here's hoping for at least 6-6 and a bowl game!
 

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#4
#4
No disrespect, but I didn't need a chart to tell me Tennessee can't play with the big boys and can win against weaker opponents.

it is interesting to see it laid out this way, however.
 
#5
#5
glad you're back ... but your last sentence tells me you really didn't believe what you posted
 
#6
#6
Well typically the worse a team is the better your team should do. That's common logic. lol
 
#7
#7
No disrespect, but I didn't need a chart to tell me Tennessee can't play with the big boys and can win against weaker opponents.

it is interesting to see it laid out this way, however.

Thanks. I agree with what you're saying, I guess my point is that the break between the "big boys" and "weaker opponents" may be higher than a lot of people around here think. The breaking point may be around 25 or 30 instead of 40 or 45.
 
#10
#10
Well typically the worse a team is the better your team should do. That's common logic. lol

Yes, TN does better against weak opponents. But it's not linear. It's really skewed towards struggling against the best teams. Maybe everybody already knew that, but if they did I think we would've expected to get smoked by Mizzou and hopefully wouldn't have seen a huge meltdown.
 
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#13
#13
We have demonstrated nothing in recent weeks that tells me we will beat Vanderbilt. With Worley playing his conservative game, we had a chance. With Dobbs; Mizzou showed you blitz the heck out of him and force him to make quick reads and plays. The UT OL can't block blitz packages. I think we are at best, no better than Vandy, maybe a bit worse.

I still say 5-7 which is up one game from my earlier prediction due to the USC upset a few weeks ago.
 
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#14
#14
We have demonstrated nothing in recent weeks that tells me we will beat Vanderbilt. With Worley playing his conservative game, we had a chance. With Dobbs; Mizzou showed you blitz the heck out of him and force him to make quick reads and plays. The UT OL can't block blitz packages. I think we are at best, no better than Vandy, maybe a bit worse.

I still say 5-7 which is up one game from my earlier prediction due to the USC upset a few weeks ago.

Vandy's D-Line does not compare to Mizzou's D-Line/rush
 
#15
#15
So we didn't perform as well as we should have against Florida and South Alabama. Everything else is pretty much chalk, except for a good performance against WKU.
 
#17
#17
Yes, TN does better against weak opponents. But it's not linear. It's really skewed towards struggling against the best teams. Maybe everybody already knew that, but if they did I think we would've expected to get smoked by Mizzou and hopefully wouldn't have seen a huge meltdown.

You can't stop or control the meltdown. :p
 
#18
#18
So one other thing that I probably should have mentioned. The r2 on the graph shows how much variation in the response (final score) the predictor (ln massey rating) explains. Anyone who thinks this is obvious should go try to find one other single factor that can explain 90% of that variation.

I point this out to re-emphasize that TNs season hasn't been a series of highs and lows (although bipolar Volnation may like to think that it has). Based on the prediction I tried, we've been close to expectations in every game (yeah, there are a few small outliers, but if there were big outliers that r2 wouldn't be 90%). So the, "Butch for President!" "Fire Butch!" "Ditch Worley!" "Bring Worley back!" cycle is, to me, based more in emotion than facts. Message boards are a great spot to be passionate about the team and I'm sure that will continue, but once the emotion from a tough game dies down I want to say that we've been more consistent than people think, and I believe we're on the right path.

That being said, I'm not stupid enough to think that this will influence anyone's perception of the season other than the small number of folks that find this stuff interesting. :)
 
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#19
#19
Tl;dr version
1) TN will probably lose to Auburn, but beat Vandy and UK and be bowl eligible. Yeah, lots of people could tell you that, but...

2) Computer rankings will tell you UT is 40th or so. I'd argue that TN is actually closer to 25 or 30, but for one reason or another simply can't compete with the very best teams, and that makes us look worse that we really are.

Long-ish post, read as much or as little as you find interesting :) So... how does TN beat SC and get killed by Missouri?

Could be that TN quit at Mizzou, could be home field, could be the QB.

Or maybe it's none of that. There's a pretty simple method that explains which games TN has won and lost, and by how much. We look at the final margin of TN's games, and the Massey computer ranking of their opponent. At first this does a bad job or predicting results. But if you ln-transform (more in a second) opponent's Massey rating the relationship is very strong. There's an attached graph showing this.

Basically, the fact that ln-transforming opponent rating makes the fit much stronger tells us that TN can't hang with the very best teams, the teams rated in the top 10 or 15 by the computers, but we should expect to be able to compete with anyone ranked around 25 or lower.

This is not good news for next week's game vs. Auburn, but does mean that we've got a really good shot of beating Vandy and UK and getting to a bowl game.

If you look at the graph, the exceptions make sense. In a few games we did worse that we should have (points above the diagonal line) USA? We really half-a$$ed that game and would do better if we played them again. UF? We'd do better if we didn't start Peterman. In a few games we did better (points below diagonal). WKU? Loads of turnovers. USC? Best game of the year for TN.

About computer rankings - lots of us, including me, look at these and call out things that look wrong. But honestly, after 9 games, these guys have a TON of data to work with and are generally really good at their jobs. Of course it's not 100% and you still have to play the games, but they are pretty good.

Here's hoping for at least 6-6 and a bowl game!

It's called an upset. It happens all the time. See also Ole Miss vs. LSU.
 
#20
#20
What are the actual numbers that say bowl game? I don't see any in your post.
 

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