Top defenders in the country according to defensive PBR

#3
#3
Freak said:
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Irrespective of where we end up - this is a tremendously fun team to watch. I think Phillips and James played very little against Ky - they are also subjectively our two best offensive players in the context that they also have the ability to score against anyone.
Those two were shooting 3's like free throws against LSU - someone should list where the rest of our team are ranked defensively.
 
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#7
#7
butchna said:
He’s functional at defense. It’s not his strength.
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Then you just aren't watching him, he's elite on defense. Leads the team in steals. According to sports reference, tied with ZZ for 2nd in Defensive box +/- (Mashack is first, who I'm also surprised is not on that list). He's 2nd in defensive win shares behind Zeigler (though he's played in 3 less games so that doesn't help). His defensive rating is incredible as well at 80.8 per 100 possessions, though a lot of our team has a really good rating on that end.
 
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#8
#8
TheMookieMonster said:
4 of the 18 best defenders in the country. On one team. Impressive.
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This! Now I'd say that has a lot to do with coaching and our scheme which places a premium on the defensive end. In other words, it's a team effort.

I did notice that #12 for Vandy lit us up in the 1st half. Barnes put JP on him and he was never heard from again. We have a special group this year if we can ever get past injury and sickness for a while.
 
#9
#9
rdk4121 said:
Then you just aren't watching him, he's elite on defense. Leads the team in steals. According to sports reference, tied with ZZ for 2nd in Defensive box +/- (Mashack is first, who I'm also surprised is not on that list). He's 2nd in defensive win shares behind Zeigler (though he's played in 3 less games so that doesn't help). His defensive rating is incredible as well at 80.8 per 100 possessions, though a lot of our team has a really good rating on that end.
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AND he defensive rebounds very well for his size and position.
 
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#10
#10
rdk4121 said:
Then you just aren't watching him, he's elite on defense. Leads the team in steals. According to sports reference, tied with ZZ for 2nd in Defensive box +/- (Mashack is first, who I'm also surprised is not on that list). He's 2nd in defensive win shares behind Zeigler (though he's played in 3 less games so that doesn't help). His defensive rating is incredible as well at 80.8 per 100 possessions, though a lot of our team has a really good rating on that end.
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He’s got basketball smarts. Curry isn’t a lockdown defender…but he gets STEALS. I don’t know what the rest of that mashup of the basketball version of PFF actually entails. I “watch” plenty. Simply don’t buy what has you so wowed.
 
#12
#12
butchna said:
He’s got basketball smarts. Curry isn’t a lockdown defender…but he gets STEALS. I don’t know what the rest of that mashup of the basketball version of PFF actually entails. I “watch” plenty. Simply don’t buy what has you so wowed.
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Let me rephrase, then you aren't paying attention. A significant amount of his steals come in a one on one situation, as he has super active hands. Rarely does he get steals by just playing off ball and gamble by jumping passing lanes like Curry. Do you have anything to back up what you're saying, or do we just have to trust your "eye" test.
 
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#15
#15
rdk4121 said:
Let me rephrase, then you aren't paying attention. A significant amount of his steals come in a one on one situation, as he has super active hands. Rarely does he get steals by just playing off ball and gamble by jumping passing lanes like Curry. Do you have anything to back up what you're saying, or do we just have to trust your "eye" test.
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The rare moments I “pay attention”, I don’t SEE him shutting his guy down or forcing into bad shots. Whoever “we” is can take it or leave it. I did invite myself into this nerd party and the birth control glasses are getting steamed. I’ll invite myself out.
 
#16
#16
Kas232323 said:
Haha. If you say so. But it’s obvious he is an elite defender. So I’ll stick with your take being really bad…. Or uneducated. Whichever you prefer. :)
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Obviously I’m an academic barbarian. Exiting this think tank.
 
#17
#17
If you go to Evan Miyakawa’s website, you can read where Julian Phillips is UT’s best defensive player by a wide margain. I’m not buying whatever statistical algorithms that have led to that conclusion. Rick Barnes apparently isn’t buying it either, because the color commenter just a couple of games ago relayed how Barnes was getting after JP at practice asking him when he was ever going to help the team defensively.
 
#18
#18
TheMookieMonster said:
4 of the 18 best defenders in the country. On one team. Impressive.
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Updated to 5 of the top 25 defenders in the country on one team. Let's stop and think about that.

One of the reasons we have the second best point differential in the country. We have benefited by playing some of the weaker teams in the conference but we
do play great defense for the most part.
 
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#19
#19
butchna said:
The rare moments I “pay attention”, I don’t SEE him shutting his guy down or forcing into bad shots. Whoever “we” is can take it or leave it. I did invite myself into this nerd party and the birth control glasses are getting steamed. I’ll invite myself out.
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Wordsmithery aside - your point appears to fall short if Vescovi is 24th in the country. Somewhat remarkable for someone not overly fast, long, or athletic. He really works on defense, I am going to give he and the others their due.
Great defensive team. Great team.
 
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#20
#20
butchna said:
The rare moments I “pay attention”, I don’t SEE him shutting his guy down or forcing into bad shots. Whoever “we” is can take it or leave it. I did invite myself into this nerd party and the birth control glasses are getting steamed. I’ll invite myself out.
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Admitting you were wrong without admitttng you were wrong.....
 
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#21
#21
JohnnyJava said:
If you go to Evan Miyakawa’s website, you can read where Julian Phillips is UT’s best defensive player by a wide margain. I’m not buying whatever statistical algorithms that have led to that conclusion. Rick Barnes apparently isn’t buying it either, because the color commenter just a couple of games ago relayed how Barnes was getting after JP at practice asking him when he was ever going to help the team defensively.
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That news was 2-3 weeks ago or longer, as commentators don’t follow us day-to-day. The recent narrative from Barnes himself is a very positive commentary on Phillips’ defensive improvements.
 
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#23
#23
Santi is a VERY good defender. Elite or not, I guess it depends how we define elite. He struggled on defense when he got here and I feel like those early impressions still follow him.

IMO (prob unpopular opinion) I believe he is as good defender as ZZ who is constantly praised on that end. Santi causes whoever he guards problems. I'm totally comfortable having him as primary defender on opposing team's sharpshooter.

Perhaps his best defensive asset though is the smarts. His help defense, how he shades, how he directs traffic--our team defense takes a noticeable step downward when he sits.
 
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#24
#24
For Phillips, I suspect Barnes was talking about his help defense. Phillips is a superb defender on his man, but what takes this team's defense to the elite level is their rotation/help defense. That takes a while to master. Barnes wants Phillips doing what JJJ, Santi, Key, & ZZ do in rotations
 
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#25
#25
JohnnyJava said:
If you go to Evan Miyakawa’s website, you can read where Julian Phillips is UT’s best defensive player by a wide margain. I’m not buying whatever statistical algorithms that have led to that conclusion. Rick Barnes apparently isn’t buying it either, because the color commenter just a couple of games ago relayed how Barnes was getting after JP at practice asking him when he was ever going to help the team defensively.
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There's a great quote in Moneyball where all the old scouts are saying a prospect is a good hitter, and Brad Pitt says "If he's a good hitter, why doesn't he hit good?"

I love that line because it connects this confusing interface of the eyeball test and stats. Not in 100 years would I have guessed Phillips was a top defensive player just watching him play, but the numbers say he's great. That's why I absolutely love looking at plus/minus stats because sometimes you have these players who you think are decent and then you look at season wide numbers and think "holy smokes there's an argument that this guy was the most valuable dude on our team this season". Or you see big numbers guys who were like, +1 on the season and think "wow he probably could have been used more effectively"
 
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