Univ. of Texas being sued

#3
#3
that is crazy...Title IX is causing a lot of burden on the court systems. Men are the target for some odd reason. While the intent may be good, it is not practical.
 
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#4
#4
Schools will over react so they appear to be acting in the alleged victims best interest and in compliance with title IX while trampling on the rights of the accused. The accused is essentially punished before guilt is proven. The reputation, academics, athletics and/or any other part of that individuals life is essentially put on hold until the slow wheels of justice reach a conclusion. Damages will be obvious if the charges are proven false. Schools will be held accountable. No win situation. This is beyond ridiculous. Title IX is a weapon and money making scheme. It's time to let issues of assault, rape, etc be handled by authorities.
 
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#5
#5
CAVPUT said:
Schools will over react so they appear to be acting in the alleged victims best interest and in compliance with title IX while trampling on the rights of the accused. The accused is essentially punished before guilt is proven. The reputation, academics, athletics and/or any other part of that individuals life is essentially put on hold until the slow wheels of justice reach a conclusion. Damages will be obvious if the charges are proven false. Schools will be held accountable. No win situation. This is beyond ridiculous. Title IX is a weapon and money making scheme. It's time to let issues of assault, rape, etc be handled by authorities.
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I am a criminal defense attorney, so obviously, I believe in due process. One issue is that being enrolled in school is not a right, and the standard for getting dismissed is not as high as being charged with a crime. You can be dismissed for cheating, which is not a crime. There are codes of conduct that must be followed. I do think it's in the school's best interest to be involved in an investigation because they need to know the details.

All that said, Title IX does put the schools in a tough spot. It seems like they can't win either way, and if UT did everything correctly, they should be able to fight theirs until the end. You hope a jury agrees if it gets that far.

I have mentioned it in other forums recently, but this reminds me of the Dez Wells situation at Xavier. He was accused of sexual assault and dismissed from Xavier. The local DA found no evidence to charge him and publicly criticized Xavier for dismissing him. It can be a very tough situation.
 
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#6
#6
VolGee4 said:
I am a criminal defense attorney, so obviously, I believe in due process. One issue is that being enrolled in school is not a right, and the standard for getting dismissed is not as high as being charged with a crime. You can be dismissed for cheating, which is not a crime. There are codes of conduct that must be followed. I do think it's in the school's best interest to be involved in an investigation because they need to know the details.

All that said, Title IX does put the schools in a tough spot. It seems like they can't win either way, and if UT did everything correctly, they should be able to fight theirs until the end. You hope a jury agrees if it gets that far.

I have mentioned it in other forums recently, but this reminds me of the Dez Wells situation at Xavier. He was accused of sexual assault and dismissed from Xavier. The local DA found no evidence to charge him and publicly criticized Xavier for dismissing him. It can be a very tough situation.
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I am not an attorney but the place I see your argument fail is that Title 9 is a federal statute that as far as I can tell, if administered as directed, has a chilling effect on equal protection and due process. It could be that I have no idea what I'm talking about but then again maybe I do. Perhaps this lawsuit at Texas is more closely related to ours than we think.
 
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#7
#7
VolGee4 said:
I am a criminal defense attorney, so obviously, I believe in due process. One issue is that being enrolled in school is not a right, and the standard for getting dismissed is not as high as being charged with a crime. You can be dismissed for cheating, which is not a crime. There are codes of conduct that must be followed. I do think it's in the school's best interest to be involved in an investigation because they need to know the details.

All that said, Title IX does put the schools in a tough spot. It seems like they can't win either way, and if UT did everything correctly, they should be able to fight theirs until the end. You hope a jury agrees if it gets that far.

I have mentioned it in other forums recently, but this reminds me of the Dez Wells situation at Xavier. He was accused of sexual assault and dismissed from Xavier. The local DA found no evidence to charge him and publicly criticized Xavier for dismissing him. It can be a very tough situation.
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Yep, you can be kicked out for cheating, plagiarism and other stuff. But usually after one has been found to have done those things. I agree the school should be involved in the investigation, but more in a cooperation with the authorities role and not as the investigator, judge, jury and executioner.
 
#8
#8
Dragon18 said:
I am not an attorney but the place I see your argument fail is that Title 9 is a federal statute that as far as I can tell, if administered as directed, has a chilling effect on equal protection and due process. It could be that I have no idea what I'm talking about but then again maybe I do. Perhaps this lawsuit at Texas is more closely related to ours than we think.
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Not sure I followed what you said. The point is that the schools can follow Title IX and still provide due process. The standard won't be the same as a criminal case. However, it is a fine line, and the schools will always be subject to litigation.
 
#9
#9
Madscientistvol said:
Yep, you can be kicked out for cheating, plagiarism and other stuff. But usually after one has been found to have done those things. I agree the school should be involved in the investigation, but more in a cooperation with the authorities role and not as the investigator, judge, jury and executioner.
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The schools have to be some sort of judge because they have to review if the student violated their code of conduct. Just because a criminal charge isn't initiated doesn't necessarily mean the code of conduct wasn't violated. It stinks, but those are just two separate things. I was actually on a peer Student Judicial Board that reviewed cheating cases.
 
#10
#10
The Dept of Education has failed to do their job by making the universities responsible for investigating these cases.

Plain. And. Simple.
 
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#11
#11
VolGee4 said:
The schools have to be some sort of judge because they have to review if the student violated their code of conduct. Just because a criminal charge isn't initiated doesn't necessarily mean the code of conduct wasn't violated. It stinks, but those are just two separate things. I was actually on a peer Student Judicial Board that reviewed cheating cases.
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I do see what you are saying. It does seem like a damned if you do damned if you don't kind of scenario when you have he said she said accusations like these though.
 
#12
#12
VolGee4 said:
Not sure I followed what you said. The point is that the schools can follow Title IX and still provide due process. The standard won't be the same as a criminal case. However, it is a fine line, and the schools will always be subject to litigation.
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I disagree with you if title IX provides that students/athletes need to be removed from campus based on allegations of wrongdoing. I think that is the difficulty here.
 
#13
#13
Dragon18 said:
I disagree with you if title IX provides that students/athletes need to be removed from campus based on allegations of wrongdoing. I think that is the difficulty here.
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Now, I see what you think I am saying. I never said based on allegations. It's the "burden of proof" that is different. A criminal case carries the highest burden in the land. The same allegations can be proven in a civil court and upheld. Or, there could be evidence during the criminal investigation that the student violated the code of conduct. It's the difference between a rights under our law and the privilege of attending a university.
 
#14
#14
VolGee4 said:
Now, I see what you think I am saying. I never said based on allegations. It's the "burden of proof" that is different. A criminal case carries the highest burden in the land. The same allegations can be proven in a civil court and upheld. Or, there could be evidence during the criminal investigation that the student violated the code of conduct. It's the difference between a rights under our law and the privilege of attending a university.
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I agree with everything you're saying but the penalties for this code of conduct outlined is based upon Title IX standards which is federally mandated and should meet constitutional standards at that point and I'm not certain they do. Like I said, I'm not an attorney but this just doesn't feel right to me.

Edit: btw Thanks for the discussion. I do know enough to realize that legal discussion and what we feel is "right" may not meet legal muster.
 
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#15
#15
BUBear said:
The Dept of Education has failed to do their job by making the universities responsible for investigating these cases.

Plain. And. Simple.
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It should not be the job of an educational institution to investigate a violent sexual felony UNLESS they assign their campus police to it AND those officers are qualified.

The University of Memphis police department where I attended is primarily made up of former Memphis police officers with real experience investigating real crime.

If someone's future is on the line and someone may be the victim of a violent crime, universities need to stay out of the way and let law enforcement officials do their job.
 
#19
#19
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#21
#21
Madscientistvol said:
Don't judge a lumen by it's photons, and remember that every game is based on physics.
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I suppose your right, the guy will probably be an Astronaut one of these days. Talk about getting women, I used to try the "I'm an Astronaut" line. I could never pull it off:ermm:
 
#23
#23
shoney said:
I suppose your right, the guy will probably be an Astronaut one of these days. Talk about getting women, I used to try the "I'm an Astronaut" line. I could never pull it off:ermm:
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Being the pilot of an M-16 works much better.:)
 
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